WOW! PBC has burned thorugh 143M dollars, investors lose 27.5% of its value!

[Scipio2009]

Its not about wanting to see it fail. If anything PBC is further isolating the sport rather than unifying it. It would only be successful for everyone if PBC controlled every single fighter which it wont. As it stands many major fights wont happen due to Haymons rifts with certain networks and promoters. How does this benefit us fans and the sport?

Haymon's only network rift is with HBO, and the only promoters that he has rifts with are Roc Nation and the promoters tied to HBO.

To try and blame Haymon for the isolation is laughable.

[The Gambler1981]

Depends on what you need to do at the time; if all of the money made went to paying down that current debt, you're $50m in the hole with a sellable asset worth $300m.

If you needed cash tomorrow (no opportunity to get debt to cover), you might be in a little trouble ; stress sale of assets likely gets you 50 cents on the dollar, but the debt still gets covered with you still making out okay.

Obviously a fire sale is a bit different, but I was talking under normal circumstances not a forced liquidation.

If the numbers continue to improve that asset price will go up, but they could also deteriorate causing that value to plummet.

[Barcham]

All I see is a naysayer.

Boxing can capture the public in the way few sports events can, it baffles me that you can't see the strengths the sport has when you are on a boxing message board.

I mean it can fail if they don't play their cards right but we are so far off from that.

Did a PBC truck run over your dog or something, I can't fathom the reason you would have so much ill will toward the venture.

I have no ill will towards the PBC. I am simply pointing out the reality of the situation. Most people here look at PBC and think it's great because it's free. Free is all fine and good but someone does have to pay the bills in the end. And that takes money. When you are paying out over 2 million in purses on each show as a minimum, and much higher on some others, you need to take in double that in advertising to be sustainable for a network.

You also need to understand that there will be no residuals from reruns of the fights, as there is for other types or regular programming. There will be no syndication money coming in after 100 episodes when a comedy or crime show can be sold to networks like Bravo and A&E and Showcase. Boxing is a first run/only run program. It has a limited audience so advertising rates need to be very high for it to be sustainable.

All of the things I am writing above are not based on emotions or personal opinion. They are based in fact. Hoping and wishing you will win the lottery is a lousy way to plan for retirement.

As for Haymon, I simply have no trust in the man. None at all. I think he is out for himself and himself only. He does not give a damn about the sport or the fans or the fighters. If he did, he would have gone into this venture totally above board and cancelled all his 'advisor' and manager contracts with all the fighters and had them sign directly to PBC. That way his own future would have been tied to the success or failure of the venture. He did not do this. Instead he is taking his percentage from all his fighters and succeed or fail, he will come out of this a very rich man. I think he is a snake oil salesman and worse than Don King ever was.

[Scipio2009]

He sold a contract for $200 million? Really? What contract was that?

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/da...50243/d10k.htm

Looking through the notes, Haymon picked up $80m-$90m for the remaining 49% of concert business as it was sold to LiveNation in 2011, after spending basically the bulk of the prior decade in a 50/50 venture with LiveNation, so I wouldn't be shocked if he picked up $200m for that entire deal.

[The Gambler1981]

I have no ill will towards the PBC. I am simply pointing out the reality of the situation. Most people here look at PBC and think it's great because it's free. Free is all fine and good but someone does have to pay the bills in the end. And that takes money. When you are paying out over 2 million in purses on each show as a minimum, and much higher on some others, you need to take in double that in advertising to be sustainable for a network.

You also need to understand that there will be no residuals from reruns of the fights, as there is for other types or regular programming. There will be no syndication money coming in after 100 episodes when a comedy or crime show can be sold to networks like Bravo and A&E and Showcase. Boxing is a first run/only run program. It has a limited audience so advertising rates need to be very high for it to be sustainable.

All of the things I am writing above are not based on emotions or personal opinion. They are based in fact. Hoping and wishing you will win the lottery is a lousy way to plan for retirement.

As for Haymon, I simply have no trust in the man. None at all. I think he is out for himself and himself only. He does not give a damn about the sport or the fans or the fighters. If he did, he would have gone into this venture totally above board and cancelled all his 'advisor' and manager contracts with all the fighters and had them sign directly to PBC. That way his own future would have been tied to the success or failure of the venture. He did not do this. Instead he is taking his percentage from all his fighters and succeed or fail, he will come out of this a very rich man. I think he is a snake oil salesman and worse than Don King ever was.

It is capitalism dude, of course Haymon is out for number 1. However, I pose to you this questions, where are these Cadillacs of men that are out for altruistic reasons that are not for profit? Also what makes their reasons any better in the end or more efficient than those seeking a profit? Why should they be more trusted?

Honestly people who are out for profit are the easiest to understand and anyone not out for profit is not someone that I would trust~ it makes me question them right away.

[The Gambler1981]

BTW everyone should read Milton Freedman's book "Capitalism and Freedom" as it is very enlightening and thought provoking.

It is old but it was as true then as it is now because these things never change.

[Flash13]

Sports properties are going through the roof because you are exactly correct, it's the only thing people watch in real time. The same fund that invested in PBC invested $1.5 billion on Formula 1. Formula 1!!! Who in the heck watches Formula 1?

Any TV sports assets are going to get mega-valuations at this point..

530 million people watch each f1 race lol.... This is the reason I don't post here anymore...

[Scipio2009]

Once again, a sport and a deal that cannot be compared to boxing in any way. How often does your favorite team play a game? How often does your favorite boxer fight? Give it a bit of thought. If your NBA team only played twice a year, do you think it would have much of a following?

How many times does your favorite team play on TV, looking specifically at the league wide deals (TNT/ESPN/ABC)?

If you're a fan of the Minnesota Timberwolves, your team MAYBE plays a handful of games on TNT/ESPN/ABC during the regular season.

How is boxing any different?

[Barcham]

There has to be a balance. Like I said, Haymon should have vacated all his contracts when he started this up. It would have removed any appearance of conflict of interest. He did not do so and I believe he is in a serious conflict of interest. I do not believe that he will give out equal purses to fighters not signed to him as he does to his own fighters as he gets a piece of their pie. Whether this is true or not, I have not bothered to verify. But the feeling and su****ion remains.

As it stands right now, Haymon comes out smiling, success or failure. After the two year period is over, he will be much richer than he started. He will have made more money than any fighter over that period, probably more than any 10 fighters combined. And that is just from his advisor's commission, not including whatever salary he is getting paid.

Doesn't work for me and unless Haymon voids the contracts, it never will.

[Scipio2009]

UFC deal was 100 mill total, not per year.

That was also a deal that was signed at the very peak of UFC popularity. There popularity has dropped dramatically, there coming off there worst year in a long time and I guarantee you they won't get a similar deal to there last one.

Haymon will get his TV deal, and he will still have Showtime as a fall back option which is good for 20 + mill a year, the question is how much $ will he land for his deal from other networks.

http://espn.go.com/mma/story/_/id/68...l-fox-networks

see for yourself