Comments Thread For: De La Hoya Gives Take on The Al Haymon Takeover

[-PBP-]

FS1, Spike, NBC Sports don't exactly do huge ratings numbers.

Even ESPN doesn't usually do that big of numbers.

Stiverne-Arreola II did 0.8 overnight and those were the biggest ratings boxing's had on ESPN in a decade.

Klitschko-Leapai did awful numbers.

They shouldn't get good ratings. Those channels usually are showcase fights to build prospects, club fighters who box part time or if we're lucky, we'll get to see some title fights but not usually the best of the best. Wlad-Leapai was on during the day. Put Wlad vs. Wilder on at 9pm and let's see what the ratings are.

[Mitchell Kane]

You have to take into consideration the number of homes those networks are in. ESPN is in like 4 time the homes HBO/SHO are. FS1 and NBCSPorts like twice the number.

It's not just the number of homes, it's also what tv rights they have.

NBC Sports has the NHL, English Premier League and auto racing...not a lot of great lead-ins for boxing on Saturday night (the EPL is their biggest Saturday programming right now, but those are in the morning).

FS1 does have some tv rights (like MLB, College bball/fball) and they do some good ratings with the UFC...but their Golden Boy fight cards don't do big audiences.

The PBC FS1 cards should do better than the GBP cards, with a Saturday night tv spot and (perhaps) more recognizable names on the fight cards...but it's questionable how good the ratings will actually be, and doubtful they will match the UFC's ratings on FS1.

[Mitchell Kane]

They shouldn't get good ratings. Those channels usually are showcase fights to build prospects, club fighters who box part time or if we're lucky, we'll get to see some title fights but not usually the best of the best. Wlad-Leapai was on during the day. Put Wlad vs. Wilder on at 9pm and let's see what the ratings are.

There's no way Wlad-Wilder is going to be on ESPN.

[Scipio2009]

Dibella didn't get opportunities?

Perhaps you weren't around after the 2000 Olympics, when he left the tv side at HBO and started promoting...and threw a whole bunch of money at that Olympic class while also getting plenty of tv dates with which to showcase them...beginning with the Night of Olympians with Jermain Taylor and others at Madison Square Garden.

Dibella had his opportunities.

That he didn't do more with them is on him, and certainly not HBO, who gave him a lot more opportunities when he was starting out than most promoters get.

You mentioned Goossen, but what exactly is Goossen Promotions at this point? Especially now that Dan Goossen isn't even around anymore.

There are no top American promoters involved in this PBC venture.

You joke about "15 HBO dates" and yet you apparently get all excited about 11 NBC dates (only 5 of which are at night)...which THEY paid for. And they're reportedly going to be paying for the promoting and marketing of these events as well.

You might want to wait until you see what all the money actually get them...not in terms of headlines in January or February...but in actual revenue in the months and years to come.

DiBella and GoosenTutor, the company, have proven track records of being able to deliver quality shows; Goosen largely out of California, DiBella out of New York.

Haymon has relationships with Britain's top promoter (Matchroom Sport) and Canada's top promoter (GYM), among a handful of solid American promoters, while also heading into the venture with the majority of the sport's marketable fighters and prospects.

I joke about the 15 dates for the simple fact that doing so acknowledges a reality that goes unmentioned; TR/K2/GBP/Main Events are all competing against each other for maybe 15 prime TV dates.

Klitschko (K2) is likely to get 2 of those dates, with Golovkin (K2) likely getting 2-3 dates of his own. You add that Kovalev (Main Events) will likely also get two dates. And then you have Saul 'Canelo' Alvarez, the possible PPV fighter who has already cannibalized one of the TV dates.

And then you've got 7-8 dates for all of the other fight cards [Matthysse-Provodnikov has already seized one of those dates]. HBO isn't going to drastically increase the boxing budget, either.

[Scipio2009]

The problem is though with 200 fighters you cannot give each the exposure they deserve the math doesn't work. Just using his fighters against each other is 100 fights a year. Not happening. Do you want to fight the most once a year if that with him or 2-3 times a year making more$ for someone else golden, top, shaw.

Not all 200 Haymon fighters are ready for TV tbh; if you even gave the signings a cursory look, a lot of his prospects have had less than 10 pro fights. most of the prospects could easily fight on the non-televised portion of the TV bills, running them out as often as their management is willing to put them into the ring.

Between the 20 shows on NBCUniversal, the 9 shows on Sp1keTV, 20-30 dates with ESPN, 12-20 shows on the Showtime channels, and whatever other shows that Haymon is able to lock up on CBS Sports, BET, or any other channel where he can get dates, there's plenty of opportunities for guys to get fights.

[Scipio2009]

This is the thing. When you really look at Haymons stable, his only REAL star is Floyd. I don't see anyone else in his stable that would draw enough casual fan interests in order for this thing to take off on network television with the exception of those who will tune in to see Broner get his azz kicked. Haymon seems to be signing just about anyone he can. I would say that 80% of his stable are made up of fighters that the casual fan has never heard of nor care about.

Unless he puts on all action balls to the wall fights, it will not take off. Casuals tuning in want to see a fight. They don't care about the technical science involved with boxing. They just want to see 2 guys going at it.

... Deontay Wilder, "One Time" Keith Thurman, and Danny "Swift" Garcia are all marketable enough fighters to interest casual fans, especialy if they keep on winning. To that, you may as well also add Julio Chavez Jr and Abner Mares to the list. (can't forget Erroll Spence Jr).

To flip the question, what non-Haymon fighter out there can draw in casual fans the way that you doubt Haymon's fighters can?

[sicko]

Oscar has the right attitude, you really can't worry about the Competition, you just have to worry about your own product and try to give the fans the best product you can possibly give them. But he did the right moving going back to ARUM because he and ARUM will need to combine ROSTERS to be able to stay in Business!

Oscar basically has to rebuild from the ground up so he has a lot of work to do but he does have some Prospects with talent who he will likely have to try and speed up their Development

Oscar, Arum. Haymon and neither does the FANS have any say what so ever as far as "WHO TAKES OVER" the fighters will determine that based on who they sign with. If all the Big Fights, Paydays and Extra Perks is with Haymon...THAT IS WHERE THE FIGHTERS WILL GO!

[HAY-B]

The problem is though with 200 fighters you cannot give each the exposure they deserve the math doesn't work. Just using his fighters against each other is 100 fights a year. Not happening. Do you want to fight the most once a year if that with him or 2-3 times a year making more$ for someone else golden, top, shaw.

Trust me, Al will figure out a way to get them the exposure they need. not all of the fighters will appear on tv. it's going to be a situation were those that shine and those that have the name will get more of the tv time.

I guess before any of us pass judgment, less just see how this year goes.

[Mitchell Kane]

DiBella and GoosenTutor, the company, have proven track records of being able to deliver quality shows; Goosen largely out of California, DiBella out of New York.

Haymon has relationships with Britain's top promoter (Matchroom Sport) and Canada's top promoter (GYM), among a handful of solid American promoters, while also heading into the venture with the majority of the sport's marketable fighters and prospects.

I joke about the 15 dates for the simple fact that doing so acknowledges a reality that goes unmentioned; TR/K2/GBP/Main Events are all competing against each other for maybe 15 prime TV dates.

Klitschko (K2) is likely to get 2 of those dates, with Golovkin (K2) likely getting 2-3 dates of his own. You add that Kovalev (Main Events) will likely also get two dates. And then you have Saul 'Canelo' Alvarez, the possible PPV fighter who has already cannibalized one of the TV dates.

And then you've got 7-8 dates for all of the other fight cards [Matthysse-Provodnikov has already seized one of those dates]. HBO isn't going to drastically increase the boxing budget, either.

What kind of history do Goossen and Dibella have when they are the primary promoter?

Not when they're working with other promoters like Top Rank or Golden Boy, but are doing the entire promotion themselves?

And Dan Goossen isn't running things anymore...so their prior history isn't even really applicable to this discussion because they are a completely unproven promoter without Dan at the helm.

Matchroom and GYM are not proven promoters in the US, and they don't have near the experience that Top Rank and Golden Boy have.

[HAY-B]

Haymon doesn't really have a track record of making many "mega stars"....especially ones that didn't get a significant post-DLH bump in their popularity.

Many of Haymon's "stars" were built on HBO/SHO money and television dates.

He doesn't have a lot of ppv stars, and he doesn't have that many ticket sellers...and it takes both to be a mega star.

As for the notion that exposure will automatically lead to tv/ppv stardom, why has the UFC seen their ppv numbers and tv ratings both drop in the 3+ years they've been doing UFC on FOX?

correct he does not have PPV stars but in my opinion he is making PPV stars. Just like the music industry pushes a no talented pretty face on the world, tricking the public into believing they are a star because of all of the exposure they are getting. Haymon will do the same with a talented fighter.
like I said to another poster in this tread, lets see what happens this year and then pass judgment. In my opinion what Haymon is doing is going to work.