To all those who say Wladdy is best HW ever etc

[Cinci Champ]

bro top 8 of greatest heavyweights ever puts u in the discussion as the possible best ever i mean are u kidding top 8 ever before hes even retired? think about that with all the great fighters there have been and ur trying to diss him for that? so i dont really see your point with this besides trolling wlad fans cause its impossible to know how wlad would of stacked up with the likes of jack johnson, ali, joe louis, or any other great heavyweight

[LacedUp]

By it being an actual world wide sport compared to back then, you can't claim to be the best at something when the sport only has three, four or maybe five countries seriously competing in it.

You ignore the fact there are more countries in the sport of boxing but address the fact there is more equipment, training methods, regimes and standards which athletes would perhaps follow to reduce the likelihood of injury whilst training.

It was a worldwide sport then too. In fact, it was probably a lot more popular than it is now. Maybe the Soviets weren't allowed to participate, but it's the same with Cuban's now or a few years ago.

No, I don't ignore anything. you claimed the sport had evolved and you used Joe Louis' reign as an example in comparison to Wladimir's reign.

So is it impressive that Wlad has beaten guys from more countries than Louis? Is that how the sport has evolved so dramatically? The colour of a passport?

Once again, I'll ask. How has the sport of boxing evolved? Not the amount of people participating or which protein drink you can get nowadays or the size of medicine balls.

How has the sport evolved?

[LacedUp]

Today we don't have anywhere near the amount of great trainers or students for that matter.
Its much easier to cut corners and boxers back in the day lived healthy lifestyles for most part compared to those of today. They would be eating potatoes, steak, chicken and so on without all these fancy supplements that don't absorb properly and have zero proven health or performance benefits, in all fairness most probably do more harm than good.
Not too mention all the partying but that isn't to say a lot/most never back then.

They was cut from a different cloth back in the day. They didn't live the life of luxury that most people of today do.
They would fight like they only had one shot, most of todays fighters hearts aren't truly in it and seem to think ''oh well I will get another opportunity thanks to who I am signed with''

I don't believe training methods have evolved. What do we have or even do that they never back then? What new training methods do we have?

Most of todays fighters train like marathon runners or bodybuilders. Back then they trained to fight! They trained like a boxer not a keep fitter.
Lets face it most of todays fighters train like keep fitters - Load of cardio that is massively heavy on the joints with a bit of padwork, sparring thrown in.

Exactly. Joe Frazier, Ali or Holmes and all these guys never did any weights. And that's why they could go 15 rounds and still have gas left in the tank. Don't even get me started about roadwork these days, especially for heavyweights. There's a reason most heavies start to blow after 5 rounds.

It's because they're trying to look good for a beauty competition (which they most often fail too) as opposed to training for their purpose which is boxing not mr. universe.

There's a distinct lack of education both when it comes to boxing itself but also training. We're supposed to have "evolved" beyond belief, yet there's not 3 heavyweights in the world that can comfortably go 12 rounds at a moderate pace, let alone 15.

[dan_cov]

I am forever reading about these advanced in regimes and programs and equipment. What do we have that they never back then?
They had weights, they had plyometrics, they had everything we do.
There really isn't any real breakthroughs.

And just because its new doesn't mean its beneficial or we know the positives/negatives from it.
Its anybodies guess what most of these supplements and foods truly have in them or what the short term side effects are let alone long term.

Its drifting off subject but its like bodybuilding; You have these new supplements, so called breakthroughs in nutrition and newly found anabolic steroids. There is a lot more money in it now. You have all this new stuff but do todays bodybuilders look any better than bodybuilders of the 50s, the 70s or whatever? I personally do not think so.

Somebody posted a great article about track and field with many other sports as well and it scientifically proved that if the old timers wore todays gear on the same ground for example they was just as fast as todays runners.

The only real advances todays man has is they tend to be taller than they was 30 years ago on average.
I certainly do not see todays fighters being fitter, more skilled, better schooled and so on on the whole. Obviously there are exceptions but overall I do not see it.

[M Bison]

Today we don't have anywhere near the amount of great trainers or students for that matter.
Its much easier to cut corners and boxers back in the day lived healthy lifestyles for most part compared to those of today. They would be eating potatoes, steak, chicken and so on without all these fancy supplements that don't absorb properly and have zero proven health or performance benefits, in all fairness most probably do more harm than good.
Not too mention all the partying but that isn't to say a lot/most never back then.

They was cut from a different cloth back in the day. They didn't live the life of luxury that most people of today do.
They would fight like they only had one shot, most of todays fighters hearts aren't truly in it and seem to think ''oh well I will get another opportunity thanks to who I am signed with''

I don't believe training methods have evolved. What do we have or even do that they never back then? What new training methods do we have?

Most of todays fighters train like marathon runners or bodybuilders. Back then they trained to fight! They trained like a boxer not a keep fitter.
Lets face it most of todays fighters train like keep fitters - Load of cardio that is massively heavy on the joints with a bit of padwork, sparring thrown in.

If all those said supplements were as ineffective as you said why are people on average living by far longer than compared to back then?

Average life expectancy varies on where you go but a lot of these people who live a hard life training using these supplements don't seem to be offset with it look at Mr Olympians If you want then, steroids are dangerous but just like being punched about in sparring and in an actual competitive fight is as well.
Being a boxer is always a life threat down the line and in the present.

Now boxers more so now more than ever train in with weights they build out certain muscles which are vital for boxers i.e. the Tricep, Neck, Traps, Shoulders and Biceps.
You can't deny the fact that back around the 40s to maybe even the 70s the knowledge in building strength/muscle wasn't what it is to what it started to become in around the 80s and 90s.
Obviously building out muscle isn't going to make you punch like Mike Tyson or make you a great fighter but with the skill sets of a good fighter it can pay dividends.

If the methods haven't changed then why are there now strength and condition coaches and nutritionists advising athletes what to eat and what to do?

[dan_cov]

Exactly. Joe Frazier, Ali or Holmes and all these guys never did any weights. And that's why they could go 15 rounds and still have gas left in the tank. Don't even get me started about roadwork these days, especially for heavyweights. There's a reason most heavies start to blow after 5 rounds.

It's because they're trying to look good for a beauty competition (which they most often fail too) as opposed to training for their purpose which is boxing not mr. universe.

There's a distinct lack of education both when it comes to boxing itself but also training. We're supposed to have "evolved" beyond belief, yet there's not 3 heavyweights in the world that can comfortably go 12 rounds at a moderate pace, let alone 15.

I seen Joe Frazier on some gameshow failing to snatch about 60kg, there was even lightweight gymnasts out lifting him but you could guarantee he'd of wiped out everyone in the room.

Most of them do lift a lot but it doesn't really show It seems they're more worried about strength and size today rather than improving and sharpening their skills. I'm certain if they improved their technique and so on that the size differential they faced would be less of a problem. They would be moving in and out better, faster, sharper, more fluid. They would no doubt box rings around these big, heavy sloths. Look at that Joseph Parker how smooth and fluid he is for a big lad compared to these big bulky heavyweights.

I actually do worry for Anthony Joshua's stamina. I have no doubt he trains like a beast but he is carrying so much muscle for a boxer, hes like an even bigger Frank Bruno.

I was going to touch up on the latter the only HWs with legitimate 12 round stamina I can think of is Tyson Fury & Wladimir

[LacedUp]

If all those said supplements were as ineffective as you said why are people on average living by far longer than compared to back then?

Maybe because of increased scientific knowledge in sickness, foods, organs - better doctors and physicians and improved education?

For instance, tuberculosis is not a terminal illness anymore.

I really doubt it's the good ol' protein shake

[M Bison]

I am forever reading about these advanced in regimes and programs and equipment. What do we have that they never back then?
They had weights, they had plyometrics, they had everything we do.
There really isn't any real breakthroughs.

And just because its new doesn't mean its beneficial or we know the positives/negatives from it.
Its anybodies guess what most of these supplements and foods truly have in them or what the short term side effects are let alone long term.

Its drifting off subject but its like bodybuilding; You have these new supplements, so called breakthroughs in nutrition and newly found anabolic steroids. There is a lot more money in it now. You have all this new stuff but do todays bodybuilders look any better than bodybuilders of the 50s, the 70s or whatever? I personally do not think so.

Somebody posted a great article about track and field with many other sports as well and it scientifically proved that if the old timers wore todays gear on the same ground for example they was just as fast as todays runners.

The only real advances todays man has is they tend to be taller than they was 30 years ago on average.
I certainly do not see todays fighters being fitter, more skilled, better schooled and so on on the whole. Obviously there are exceptions but overall I do not see it.

Bodybuilding use to be about aesthetics back then there is still elements to that but not in the main competition of Mr Olympia.
Besides If Phil Heath trained to be around 200 - 210lbs he'd probably be equally as impressive as some of those old guys, it has nothing to do with the drugs.

[bluebeam]

wlad biggest wins are against haye,peter,povetkin,byrd. his resume isn't good.

wlad has longevity and that counts for something. but he isn't a top 5 heavyweight of all time. his brother should rank ahead of him, just for avenging little bro's defeats

[LacedUp]

I seen Joe Frazier on some gameshow failing to snatch about 60kg, there was even lightweight gymnasts out lifting him but you could guarantee he'd of wiped out everyone in the room.

Most of them do lift a lot but it doesn't really show It seems they're more worried about strength and size today rather than improving and sharpening their skills. I'm certain if they improved their technique and so on that the size differential they faced would be less of a problem. They would be moving in and out better, faster, sharper, more fluid. They would no doubt box rings around these big, heavy sloths. Look at that Joseph Parker how smooth and fluid he is for a big lad compared to these big bulky heavyweights.

I actually do worry for Anthony Joshua's stamina. I have no doubt he trains like a beast but he is carrying so much muscle for a boxer, hes like an even bigger Frank Bruno.

I was going to touch up on the latter the only HWs with legitimate 12 round stamina I can think of is Tyson Fury & Wladimir

I know right. People these days aren't educated on the impacts of weightlifting and increased muscle size. Big muscles directly opposes good stamina and endurance. It's a complete waste of time to do serious weight lifting if you're a boxer.

Yeah I know! Which brings us to another point, which is their lack of discipline. Someone like Povetkin would be a lot better at 215 than 225-230. More mobile, sharper, better power.

That's what I've been saying about Parker. He's like a Hughie Fury. Fluid, skillful and natural movement + natural power as well. Perfect for a heavyweight.

It'll be interesting to see how Joshua deals with stamina for sure. Luckily, he's not bulky in the same sense as Bruno was. he's a bit long and lanky with muscle. more like a Wlad physique. Bruno literally looked like a bodybuilder. I could just picture him with speedos on, flexing in front of everybody.