Martinez is not and never was "slick."

[Nicolino]

[QUOTE=Beater_of_ass;15064694]

So how often a fighter gets hit is not valid information? You guys are here trying to defend the great defense of Martinez and it's CRAP and always has been CRAP. My numbers were to back up not point not just say "he's better because I think so" which is 90% of the debates on here. The guy is easy to get hit, always has been and it had nothing to do with his kneed. Roy Jones got lit up by Tarver, not because he was old, but because when you fight a well trained technical boxer, leaving your hands down isn't going to fool them it's to their advantage.

He wasn't a defensive wizard or slick. The problem is his only defensive tool was his feet, which were really fast, not much head movement and hand almost always down. He is used to fight like that and he got a lot of criticism because of that. Without his feet he has nothing to avoid being hit. I'm not taking nothing away from Cotto, i blame Martinez for taking the fight.
And you can't just look at Martinez stats as he was fighting the same guy, in the same place and same stage of his career. you can't compare those wars with William with that sparring sesion with Murray.

[Divine Hammer]

cotto caught martinez with the same left hook that chavez jr caught him with in the 12th round of their fight.

prime cotto vs prime martinez would equal the same result. cotto is and always will be the better fighter.

even martinez said his legs weren't a problem in the fight.

[Nicolino]

cotto caught martinez with the same left hook that chavez jr caught him with in the 12th round of their fight.

prime cotto vs prime martinez would equal the same result. cotto is and always will be the better fighter.

even martinez said his legs weren't a problem in the fight.

That's good sportsmanship. He didn't train again and he is flying around the world looking for a doctor that would say his legs are OK. He is still searching.

[radioraheem]

He wasn't a defensive wizard or slick. The problem is his only defensive tool was his feet, which were really fast, not much head movement and hand almost always down. He is used to fight like that and he got a lot of criticism because of that. Without his feet he has nothing to avoid being hit. I'm not taking nothing away from Cotto, i blame Martinez for taking the fight.
And you can't just look at Martinez stats as he was fighting the same guy, in the same place and same stage of his career. you can't compare those wars with William with that sparring sesion with Murray.

Who did you pick to win before the fight?

[Beater_of_ass]

[QUOTE=Nicolino;15064915]

He wasn't a defensive wizard or slick. The problem is his only defensive tool was his feet, which were really fast, not much head movement and hand almost always down. He is used to fight like that and he got a lot of criticism because of that. Without his feet he has nothing to avoid being hit. I'm not taking nothing away from Cotto, i blame Martinez for taking the fight.
And you can't just look at Martinez stats as he was fighting the same guy, in the same place and same stage of his career. you can't compare those wars with William with that sparring sesion with Murray.

I didn't. That's why I posted his last 5 or 6 fights instead of just one and made the assumption he was always easy to hit. Martinez was an entertaining fighter because he likes to fight and mix it up that's usually when he gets hit. My point once again is that against a fighter with a lot of amateur background and/or just a very solid technical boxer, that's like throwing a 90 mph fastball right down the middle for Mike Trout. Sergio's head was in perfect range for Cotto's jab or hook and his hands by his knee's are too slow to block either of those punches from coming in.

The legs have nothing to do with it, because he was fine before he got busted in the head with that first hook. I already stated the reason why that would happen and it instantly showed up in the fight. All things combined I'm saying Martinez is the same fighter at any point in his career and so was Cotto. Great left hook and great at cutting off the ring, that spells bad news for a southpaw who leaves his hands down and hunches over like he should be in a bell tower.

[-Antonio-]

It's easy to look like you have great footwork and defense when you fight guys as slow as Pavlik and jcc jr. Really what carried martinez these last few years was his hand speed, power, and stamina. Macklin, Barker, and murray were all having success boxing Martinez.

[Lords]

Sergio's career is evolved around KOing PWill in the fashion that it was in. Sergio hasn't beatin any A level fighters in his career too. Cotto beats him 3 or 4 years ago as well because he is the superior boxer.

[Ham Porter]

Cotto fans just don't want to accept the hallow nature of his victory, just like they don't want to accept that the last five years of his career have been all smoke and mirrors.

[Joe Beamish]

Cotto fans just don't want to accept the hallow nature of his victory, just like they don't want to accept that the last five years of his career have been all smoke and mirrors.

Pretty much. I get tired of hearing what a come-forward badass Cotto is when he simply couldn't take any more of Pac who was visibly frustrated at Cotto's running and had to be prompted by Roach to "knock out this sonofa*****." He looked amazing against Martinez who was absolutely legless.

And Roach said so before the fight himself. Martinez was old and injured, and they took advantage of it (as they should have.)

[Nicolino]

the same people who said Pavlik wasn't in his prime against say Martinez was still in his prime against Cotto? We will never know how it would be a fight between Cotto and the Martinez of two years back, because Cotto didn't want to take that fight. Anyway i expect to see Cotto facing someone like Murray or Chavez Jr. so we can take some conclusions.