Martinez is not and never was "slick."

[DeadLikeMe]

I agree slick isn't the right word for it, but attacking that crouching matador southpaw stance of his was pretty much always a bad idea.

[////]

Had nothing to do with styles. Martinez was just there for his retirement check.

I still don't understand why Cotto fans are so defensive about that fight. Yes it was hard to watch and a disappointing match, but nobody is blaming Cotto for that.

[vorgaphe]

Martinez was old, injured and well past prime. Cashed in for some retirement money. End of thread.

[DoktorSleepless]

How are you slick when nearly every guy lands 40-50% of their power punches on you?

Because overall not many power punches are thrown. Imagine a Fighter A only managed to throw 2 power a punches a round, but landed them both each time. That's a 100% hit rate even though he only landed 2 punches. Fighter B otherwise dominated. Then you come along claiming claiming B isn't slick because fighter A landed 100% of his punches. That's ******ed.

Martinez fights with his hands down 90% of the time. And a guy like Kelly Pavlik could only land 13 punches a round with a guy who has no defense. Think about that for a sec.

Answer me this. Do you seriously think Kelly Pavlik would agree with you that Martinez was easy to hit?

[Beater_of_ass]

Because overall not many power punches are thrown. Imagine a Fighter A only managed to throw 2 power a punches a round, but landed them both each time. That's a 100% hit rate even though he only landed 2 punches. Fighter B otherwise dominated. Then you come along claiming claiming B isn't slick because fighter A landed 100% of his punches. That's ******ed.

Martinez fights with his hands down 90% of the time. And a guy like Kelly Pavlik could only land 13 punches a round with a guy who has no defense. Think about that for a sec.

Answer me this. Do you seriously think Kelly Pavlik would agree with you that Martinez was easy to hit?

I didn't even refer to how many punches were landed on him, my entire point was ACCURACY. If someone threw 10 power punches a round they handled 4-5. Cotto is a very accurate puncher, when a guy fights with his hands by his ass, yeah, he's easy to hit. Look at Roach, Mayweather Sr and some other trainers they all say the same thing about Martinez defense it's crap. Because as you say he fights with his hands down, he is easy to hit. He might not be easy to trap in a corner, but a punch to the head... yeah pretty easy to hit. I'm sure Kelly would agree with that too, did you not see martinez face after the fight? It was no Margarito but Floyd never looked like that, Roy Jones never looked like that after any of his fights.

[Beater_of_ass]

Had nothing to do with styles. Martinez was just there for his retirement check.

I still don't understand why Cotto fans are so defensive about that fight. Yes it was hard to watch and a disappointing match, but nobody is blaming Cotto for that.

Why are we defending a win? We're trying to get you Martinez fans out of denial. I'm sure you lost a lot of money on the bet, get over it.

[Nicolino]

Do you practice ****** or does it just come natural? If his feet were so important how come the fight when he injured a second time (Murray) was when he got hit the least? Please explain this to me.

Why do you need to insult me? Well you shouldn't look at Martínez stats you dumb ****, do some research of Murray's workrate who as a big MW doesn't throw many punches and they were fighting in Argentina. Also, Martinez didn't trade much, he tried to outbox Murray but failed...this thread is just ****** like your stats interpretation.

[DoktorSleepless]

I didn't even refer to how many punches were landed on him, my entire point was ACCURACY.

My point is that accuracy and accuracy alone is an incomplete metric for judging whether someone is easy to hit.

I'm just going to forget about talking about what it means to be "slick" because I know that would be ******ed conversation.

He might not be easy to trap in a corner, but a punch to the head... yeah pretty easy to hit.

If you can't catch/trap the opponent, the opponent isn't easy to hit. Period. Martinez is not easy to catch so he's hard to hit.

with that too, did you not see Martinez face after the fight?

Yes, that's what happens when a jr middleweight champion faces a a big punching borderline super middleweight. He still overall got hit very little through out the fight. And nobody has argued that the greatest defensive fighter of all time, Mayweather, has a much better defense than Martinez.

[Beater_of_ass]

Why do you need to insult me? Well you shouldn't look at Martínez stats you dumb ****, do some research of Murray's workrate who as a big MW doesn't throw many punches and they were fighting in Argentina. Also, Martinez didn't trade much, he tried to outbox Murray but failed...this thread is just ****** like your stats interpretation.

So how often a fighter gets hit is not valid information? You guys are here trying to defend the great defense of Martinez and it's CRAP and always has been CRAP. My numbers were to back up not point not just say "he's better because I think so" which is 90% of the debates on here. The guy is easy to get hit, always has been and it had nothing to do with his kneed. Roy Jones got lit up by Tarver, not because he was old, but because when you fight a well trained technical boxer, leaving your hands down isn't going to fool them it's to their advantage.

[Beater_of_ass]

My point is that accuracy and accuracy alone is an incomplete metric for judging whether someone is easy to hit.

I'm just going to forget about talking about what it means to be "slick" because I know that would be ******ed conversation.


If you can't catch/trap the opponent, the opponent isn't easy to hit. Period. Martinez is not easy to catch so he's hard to hit.


Yes, that's what happens when a jr middleweight champion faces a a big punching borderline super middleweight. He still overall got hit very little through out the fight. And nobody has argued that the greatest defensive fighter of all time, Mayweather, has a much better defense than Martinez.

Very true that if you can't trap a guy, they are hard to hit. Cotto has been able to cut off the ring with ease his entire career, on anyone. Martinez was quick, but guess what he's not faster than a WW or JWW. Cotto was able to trap those guys and cut off the ring, Martinez is slow than most JWW and WW's which again the style always favored Cotto. But, of course you guys know everything about boxing and there is just no way Cotto could cut off the ring on Martinez. I mean, he's blazingly fast in comparison to Judah, Floyd, Paulie, Foreman and all the other guys Cotto had no problems cutting off.