How would Klitschko's career have looked without the use of illegal tactics?

[LA_2_Vegas]

It is a paradox. Your assertion is that he wouldn't be as good as he is if he didn't clinch - yet at the same time make the claim that when he is less clinchy he is actually better. Take away the clinches and he's becomes more vulnerable...but also more dangerous. I'm sure Steward had to put a lot of thought into the cost-benefit of it all.

I tend to think he would still turn out to be a champion even if he did not employ the tactics, BUT when looking at that paradox straight in the face, it probably was the most responsible direction for Steward to take him. He will never meet the peak of his talent, but I think he would have reached similar career benchmarks just not had such a long uninterrupted reign.

[Boxing Goat]

I guess he would be right at where Lennox Lewis would have been.

I love sour g****s lolololololololol

[LacedUp]

I thought that you were better than this Laced. Vladdy KO has 52 KO's. He must be doing something more than holding. Manny Stewart taught him how to fight behind his height and jab. Strategy is a big part of the fight game and Vlad is an ATG at it. Stop hating on greatness.

Better than what? Just because he's the champ, I'm not allowed to ask a very legit question? The man uses a lot of foul tactics, and a lot of his KO's come from pure exhaustion because they've been leaned on for 7 rounds prior by a much larger man.

LacedUp has been butt hurt ever since Vlad made Haye his b1tch.

No, I didn't really care much for him before that either.

Yeah, but he's actually a Wlad fan so he says remember

I've never said I was or am a fan of Wladimir. In fact, I've made it clear many times that he's not my cup of tea. I respect him as a person and as a champion though. But I don't like his style.

[Jedi Vader]

I agree. Only reason I like it is because I know how bad Freedom wants to comment even though he can't. Hahaha

[billeau2]

Wladimir had never looked like losing to anybody in his first 20+ fights. He gassed against Puritty who he was one sidedly bashing for the entire fight but he gassed because Puritty happened to have among the hardest chins and took it, was more experienced (Wlad had never fought past round 6 brfore because he KO'ed all of his opponents) and didn't pace himself.

He learned how to pace himself. Even Puritty never outboxed him and never won by cracking his chin. These things remained untested.

Up until his 40th+ fight with Corrie Sanders, Wladimir STILL had never been outboxed and never had his chin cracked ever once!

To say there were indications that Wlad HAD to learn to clinch is ridiculous since at this stage Wlad had had more 200+ HW fights than all but a handful of other boxers did in their entire career.

See, the issue wasn't really THAT difficult was it!



The Wladimir with a weak chin is a totally exposed myth. It isn't even possible for the most dominant HW chamo of all time in the hardest hitting era with the most fights to REALLY have a weak chin.

This 12 times KD stuff is obviously hiding the truth.

The Brewster ones can be deleted obviously, the Puritty ones, exhaustion, and several of the others occurred in the same fight (Peter) from which he got up from to win (as with the other opponents)

Leaving just Sanders which accounts for a few KD's in itself, again he got up to be KD'd again and finished on his feet, he can't be penalised for that!

1 fight in which his chin failed him!

In which as you already know, the anvil headbutt!

He took full force punch from Chagaev after the bell and shrugged it off. Thompson managed to connect with some good shots, nothing!

Peter almost koed him, Sanders destroyed him, purity....then there was the exhausted affair with brewster...you can only make so many excuses junior...Face it!

With lewis its a different story. he got hit with two giant shots. He was not outclassed, and he avenged both fights relatively easily....Not so for Vlad. He got to Brewster late and would never fight Sanders...so face the music. Chagaev huh? my wife punches harder than that Russian powder fist, you insult my intelligence once agian junior, your teachers keep calling me for a reason Stay in school! you need to

[LacedUp]

Peter almost koed him, Sanders destroyed him, purity....then there was the exhausted affair with brewster...you can only make so many excuses junior...Face it!

With lewis its a different story. he got hit with two giant shots. He was not outclassed, and he avenged both fights relatively easily....Not so for Vlad. He got to Brewster late and would never fight Sanders...so face the music. Chagaev huh? my wife punches harder than that Russian powder fist, you insult my intelligence once agian junior, your teachers keep calling me for a reason Stay in school! you need to

Peter didn't really come close to knocking Wlad out if we're honest. None of the 3 KDs he took in that fight were hard and he really smashed Peter up good.

[IMDAZED]

He's not better than Lewis but Wlad is a top 15 HW and I don't think he's done either. The Peter performance ranks as his best IMO. Not best opponent but performance. As much as he gets slagged for clinching etc., he deserves major credit for taking that fight when many thought he was a fraud, when it appeared as though he had lost his confidence and when Peter was still young brash and heavy handed. Wlad deserves even more credit for how he won that fight.

[LacedUp]

He's not better than Lewis but Wlad is a top 15 HW and I don't think he's done either. The Peter performance ranks as his best IMO. Not best opponent but performance. As much as he gets slagged for clinching etc., he deserves major credit for taking that fight when many thought he was a fraud, when it appeared as though he had lost his confidence and when Peter was still young brash and heavy handed. Wlad deserves even more credit for how he won that fight.

That was definitely a turning point in his career in my opinion.

[marvelousmatt]

Better than what? Just because he's the champ, I'm not allowed to ask a very legit question? The man uses a lot of foul tactics, and a lot of his KO's come from pure exhaustion because they've been leaned on for 7 rounds prior by a much larger man.



No, I didn't really care much for him before that either.



I've never said I was or am a fan of Wladimir. In fact, I've made it clear many times that he's not my cup of tea. I respect him as a person and as a champion though. But I don't like his style.

I've watched every Vladdy KO fight. I have maybe recalled seeing him warned for holding maybe 2-3 times and had a point taken in the Haye fight. I can't remember any others. Vladdy KO is the real deal, he is a top 8 ATG HW. He has 52 KO's so he must be doing something else but holding.


" It ain't a foul if it ain't called." Vladdy KO employs the same tactical strategies as Lennox and Ali. He has an exciting style and sells out arenas.

If Vladdy KO was American...he would be HUGE crossover star in states.

[LacedUp]

I've watched every Vladdy KO fight. I have maybe recalled seeing him warned for holding maybe 2-3 times and had a point taken in the Haye fight. I can't remember any others. Vladdy KO is the real deal, he is a top 8 ATG HW. He has 52 KO's so he must be doing something else but holding.


" It ain't a foul if it ain't called." Vladdy KO employs the same tactical strategies as Lennox and Ali. He has an exciting style and sells out arenas.

If Vladdy KO was American...he would be HUGE crossover star in states.

Then you honestly have very selected memory. It's not about whether he's warned for holding - we shouldn't give Wlad credit for incompetent refereeing. For example, he clinched 150 times vs Povetkin incl leaning, holding, pushing etc but wasn't even deducted a point - probably not even warned if I remember correctly. Ironically, the point he was deducted in the Haye fight wasn't necessary in my opinion.

I'm definitely not saying he isn't the real deal - I don't recall ever saying that. He's obviously a very talented and powerful fighter.

There's no proof whatsoever that he'd be a great crossover star in America if he was american, that's a myth. American fighters who are all very talented like Hopkins, Ward and even Mayweather when he was younger, were never the stars their talents deserved because they simply didn't have a fan friendly style.

Vitali had a much better chance of becoming a star in the US than Wlad, also especially after his fight with Lennox. Americans think of Wlad as the big boring guy who got smashed by a couple of average fighters on HBO. As unfortunate as that might be.