How would Klitschko's career have looked without the use of illegal tactics?

[daggum]

Well, I think, if he didn't learn to clinch, he would have maybe 1 more loss on his record, possibly 2.

I would identify perhaps Samuel Peter being the one to serve him a loss in the 1st fight. Probably not others though.

And I think he would likely finished his opponents much faster. He would always have been a dominant force, just like with Lenny getting starched by Rahman, he'd always come straight back. Nobody could hold a belt for long with Wladimir around.

What Steward really achieved with Wladimir, was ensured that he never got starched again by making about as defensively impenetrable as possible, at the expense of a more protracted and monotonous experience for the fans to watch who prefer more risk/action.

What I can't do is blame Wladimir for wanting to completely shut out his opponent and win without getting hurt, when he doesn't have to!

It's ironic, in the aftermath of the Sanders bout you can hear Foreman and the HBO team discussing "WK HAS to learn how to clinch, it's like he doesn't know how to!"

If only they knew!

But that's the thing with Wladimir, he is probably the greatest example of any boxer that learned from his lessons and each time made the necessary adjustments to never allow it to happen again, until he became virtually invincible.

you don't blame him for cheating lol

[Elroy1]

you don't blame him for cheating lol

So this is where we're headed now after our long road..

You want to accuse one of the cleanest boxers overall of being nothing but a ****** cheat,

when the last several threads you have been actively promoting a boxer who'se entire career and legacy was based on cheating.

Amazing. Simply amazing!

[Elroy1]

well he was 2-2 against top 10 competition and was also was knocked out by a journeyman so he wasn't very good until he developed his holding tactics.

If you call being the "heir apparent" to the HW division not being very good then you have some pretty high standards.

To be fair, that is kinda every boxer's weakness

I would have thought that to have been unmentionable but there we are.

Brewster was not legit, everyone knows that, it's irrefutable. WK even whilst nearly in a coma, one sidedly bashed him anyway.

Have we ever seen the Puritty match? Another 1 sided beating until he gassed. The fight was stopped whilst WK was on his feet.

[champion4ever]

Let's be honest...

Wladimir Klitschko grapples quite a bit as other boxers have done in the past.

WK's clinching is a legal clinch after which there is a split, the fighters reset and resume boxing.

Even in the most clinchy fight against Samuel Peter,

Muhammad Ali (of all guys) clinched 2-3 times MORE than Wladimir did! (FOTC)

And sorry to say, this was NOT legal!

Head down pushing, grabbing behind the neck etc etc.

There was never a point in any of his fights in which you could have said "he should be DQ'd" realistically, unlike Ali. Unlike Ruiz.

Vitali Klitschko doesn't really need to be included in this thread.

Vitali simply took every single opponent he ever faced and beat the absolute living **** out them all! Even the opponents that he LOST against!

Except you do have a leg to stand on with this thread.

Because Wladimir, in his fight with Alexander Povetkin, certainly clinched more than in any other fight, even more than Ali vs Frazier (FOTC being the 2nd most clinchy fight of all time).

But again, I think WK should have been warned, and had he been warned, I doubt he'd have continued to clinch as much. And half the blame should be put on Povetkin for bull rushing. And the clinches were without foul tactics, and in between the hugging, Wladimir dominantly disposed of Povetkin.

So despite this embarrassing fight, the modern day Frazier vs Ali but even MORE disgraceful than the original, K2 still dominate, obviously!

That's an unfair comparison because Muhammad Ali did not possess the punching power of a Wladimir Klitschko. Ali was a natural boxer with very little punching power to boot. Therefore, it was natural and very understandable of him to excessively grapple and clinch his opponents each and every time they got inside. George Foreman never done that because he was a huge power who could hit. The very same can be said for Mayweather, Ward and Hopkins because neither of those guys are huge punchers either. So therefore it is very understandable for them to grapple and hold their opponents on the inside as opposed to trading punches with them because they all lack the punching power to ko their opponents

Wladdy on the other hand has power and can punch but refuses to do so. He simply doesn't like to hit or be hit, which makes his fights very boring and frustrating to watch to the average boxing fan. Therefore he has no excuse. However, if he didn't have the ability to punch and get his opponents out there sooner, then none of us fight fans would be criticizing him as much. However he does possess the talent to punish guys and get them out there early but just refuses to do so.

His M.O appears to just to carry his opponents by throwing fewer power punches as possible and wearing them down with excessive holding and jabs in the process. Mind you that he is listed at 6'7 and weighs approximately 250 lbs. He is much bigger than the heavyweights of the Golden era but is too afraid of exchanging and trading punches with his much smaller and over matched opponents in the weakest Heavyweight era that boxing has ever produced.

[Weltschmerz]

People do realize this is a bait troll thread, right?

[Crazylegs77]

People do realize this is a bait troll thread, right?

They must realize. At first glance this is an obvious bait thread but it has a deeper meaning. To trick fans of "crafty veteran boxing tactics" into bashing Wlad.

[yoz]

People do realize this is a bait troll thread, right?

Lewis destroys Wladimir by KO in Round 1.

[Weltschmerz]

Lewis destroys Wladimir by KO in Round 1.

Maybe. Too bad he ducked Vladimir so that we will never know.

[yoz]

Maybe. Too bad he ducked Vladimir so that we will never know.

Hahaha, still on that one?

Wladimir was ready for Lewis in 2003, was he? Was getting KTFO by Corrie Sanders part of the plan?

[Elroy1]

That's an unfair comparison because Muhammad Ali did not possess the punching power of a Wladimir Klitschko. Ali was a natural boxer with very little punching power to boot. Therefore, it was natural and very understandable of him to excessively grapple and clinch his opponents each and every time they got inside. George Foreman never done that because he was a huge power who could hit. The very same can be said for Mayweather, Ward and Hopkins because neither of those guys are huge punchers either. So therefore it is very understandable for them to grapple and hold their opponents on the inside as opposed to trading punches with them because they all lack the punching power to ko their opponents

Wladdy on the other hand has power and can punch but refuses to do so. He simply doesn't like to hit or be hit, which makes his fights very boring and frustrating to watch to the average boxing fan. Therefore he has no excuse. However, if he didn't have the ability to punch and get his opponents out there sooner, then none of us fight fans would be criticizing him as much. However he does possess the talent to punish guys and get them out there early but just refuses to do so.

His M.O appears to just to carry his opponents by throwing fewer power punches as possible and wearing them down with excessive holding and jabs in the process. Mind you that he is listed at 6'7 and weighs approximately 250 lbs. He is much bigger than the heavyweights of the Golden era but is too afraid of exchanging and trading punches with his much smaller and over matched opponents in the weakest Heavyweight era that boxing has ever produced.

Well I don't buy any of that picture but basically your making excuses for Ali's holding while slamming Wladimir for the same thing on the basis that Muhammad needed to clinch and Wladimir doesn't have to, he does it cause he's reluctant to fight.

Double standard to the limit.

You make no mention of how much stronger and more powerful Wladimir's opponents are now too by comparison to Muhammad's.

You also mention Foreman as if he CLEANLY manhandled his opponents. Foreman's opponents were INCREDIBLY weak. Most of them cruisers whom he outweighed 80% of the time. Ali himself outweighed 70% of his opponents. Foreman's tactic was to shove them away as soon as they came in range. When Foreman came against an opponent nearly as strong as himself he was in a protracted war of back and forth KD's BECAUSE he couldn't keep his opponent off him like Wlad does.

Wladimir was outweighed as often as he outweighed DESPITE being much larger you idiot, check the stats. It's of no SURPRISE that he might need to clinch more. The opponents of Foreman and Ali could scarely hurt their bigger champions, the opponents of Wladmir are easily capable of KO'ing him if they catch him too many times.

THIS^ is what I am talking about. We are today dealing with the hardest punching era the world has seen to date. And the REASON the boxers like Wladimir need to be high on defense is because the evolutionary pressure demands it!

Also as a side note, this accounts for the increased success of chubby HW boxers. The prescence of chubby boxers in an era is a sign of a hard hitting era. Were those less tall, less slick boxers not to be chubby, they would more easily be knocked out!