Has Ward fought anyone as skilled/good as Kovalev/Golovkin?

[-Kev-]

I dunno, a fighter seems special to me when you can go ahead and say, yeah I'm pretty sure if GGG moved up to 168 he'd beat Abraham, Bika, potentially Kessler, Froch and is being pushed to face the #2 P4P.

Like, does anyone actually believe Abraham would win vs GGG, or Bika? Heck, even Dirrel who lost in the amatuers to GGG? Obviously for now it's only guessing though.

It's telling to me when I can imagine a fighter from 160, moving up to 168 and clearing 80% of the division probably in a month if he was allowed and didn't have business at 160 already.

I have said it before, months ago, GGG should move up to 168 because he beats Abraham, Stieglitz, Oosthuizen, has a tough fight with an old Bika but probably wins. If he wants to move down to 154, then do it, there's good fights down there too against very good/respectable opponents like Canelo, Cotto, Andrade, Kirkland even Clottey would be decent compared to 160's top 10. Whatever he does, either move down or move up, would be way better than staying at 160.

[LouIE G]

Both Golovkin and Kovalev have deep amateur backgrounds and you don't have to take out the P4P top 10 to be able to have a clear skillset.

No you dont, but you have to go more then 2 rounds to test those skills... murray is good and durable IF Ggg fights murray next it will answer some questions about GGG.

[King_]

I forgot about Bika, I think Bika definitely lasts 12 rounds with GGG and gives him hell but he loses.



1. They are Super Middleweights, that already makes them tougher opponents, and able to absorb punches from Ward much better. 2. Their resume is better.

Froch's power, chin, stamina, clutch performances make him better. His fights against Taylor, Pascal, Groves II, Bute, should show anyone what he is made of. GGG can't go in there and do to Froch what he did to Rubio, Geale or Macklin, but on the other hand I can see Froch going in there and do to GGG what he's done to other fighters like Bute and Groves. It would kind of be a case of Nonito Donaire winning FOTY in 2012 for beating four old/small/overmatched but top 10 opponents, having so many fans hyping him up, network backing him up, and then rising way up in class vs Rigondeaux and getting embarrassed. That's what would happen if GGG fights Froch.

Again, as to how Froch is better, Froch is one of those fighters that has fans/critics/boxers and media puzzled from the outside looking in as to how the heck does he get some of these wins out of his ass like he does. You and I are just boxing fans so we can sit here and criticize how flawed Froch is but excellent fighters like Pascal, Dirrell(I thought he won but still had trouble), Groves, Bute, Johnson had so much problems with him. They are the only one's that can sit here and break down Froch's strengths and weaknesses. If I do it, I would just be talking out of my ass. I can say Froch is slow, has shotty defense, a lot of stamina, can KO you in the championship rounds even if you were kicking his ass, packs a punch, and has a chin from hell and can recover real fast, and even pretend that he is okay after he gets hit flush.

Froch has above-average, at best power. Come on his only knockouts in his magnificent "P4P run" is against George Groves, and Lucian Bute. Bute is skilled but has a glass chin and he got KO'd by Golovkin with headgear on. Enough said. Bute is one of Froch's best wins.... and you don't think Golovkin could do to him what Froch did, when Golovkin KO'd him with headgear?

Besides that, Froch's only KO was against a shot Jermain Taylor in the late rounds. Great KO. But that hardly shows "better power" then GGG. Dude Froch went the distance with Pascal, Dirrell, Kessler and the corpse of Glen Johnson. How the hell is that better power then Golovkin? Sure, they're bigger then Golovkin's opponents, but that's not what we're arguing. Relative to Froch's size, they're the same as all of GGG's opponents were to GGG.


Froch has absolutely fantastic stamina and chin. I said that.


Now what else does he have? He's exactly what I called him! A low-skilled tough guy who fights like a caveman. He doesn't have the skill to go with his power to beat elite boxers. He doesn't do anything that Kovalev/GGG can do and you just agreed to that by saying he's better then GGG by listing the only things he does well, which are attributes of a guy who fights like a caveman.


His chin, stamina and average power make him special? Golovkin has much more then that. If those are the three things that make a so called "top SMW" special.... he's not that special. Golovkin has all of those things, plus you know, actual boxing/punching ability.


Froch is criminally overrated. I think you just unintentionally proved my point. He's a slow, plodding tough guy with a fantastic chin and great stamina. He has no boxing ability and a chin and stamina are hardly "skills." He doesn't and never had the skillset to go with his style to beat a great boxer like Ward. Golovkin and Kovalev do, and even if you say that's just my opinion..... Froch/Kessler/Bika/Abraham were all overrated and products of a bad division and weak era and hold all of the attributes that I said earlier in this thread. They're nothing more then that.

Geale = Froch. Tough guy with a good chin and stamina, beat top 160lbers and been in there with the best the division has to offer. Clearly a top 5 fighter in division when they fought Ward/Golovkin but both guys are average fighters who excel at nothing besides the attributes that make a plodding "tough guy" (chin/stamina/will/heart)

[King_]

I think you've got a valid point.

I'd pick Kovalev and GGG (imagine others would too) moving to 168 and clearing out 80% of the division within a few months if the promoters allowed it. So either that makes people perceive Kovalev and GGG to be something special/better than them, or the 168 division is just vastly overrated with guys who feed off each other.

I'd love to see someone argue that either of them wouldn't trash most good fighters at 168 besides Ward and potentially Froch.

Yes, I have a valid point, which is why Kev was the only one who could even attempt a respectable/legit response.


Larrry/Fefist/Lords just came in the thread, said Ward beat better competition.... completely ignored my legitimate questions, called me a troll and left.

[King_]

The fact of the matter is, they might all look like killers if confronted with the same level of opposition as Kovalev and Golovkin. At the very least Froch has proven himself time and time again. Pascal went on to beat Dawson who was very good at the time.

But the hypocrisy I pointed out in my OP is evident with the responses/behavior of Larry/Lords in this thread, for example.


Pascal is a good fighter and Froch' best win. Everything I said still stands, though. He does nothing special besides "tough guy" attributes and he's a product of a weak division/era.

[King_]

No you dont, but you have to go more then 2 rounds to test those skills... murray is good and durable IF Ggg fights murray next it will answer some questions about GGG.

Murray blatantly ducked GGG once, just like all of the other top fighters at MW.


The ones he did beat, like Geale for example, (top 5) get brushed off my Golovkin haters yet those same guys ride Froch/Kessler as GREAT wins for Ward, with their only response as to what makes them special.... being they were top fighters in their divisions. So what was Geale?


Geale = Froch.

[daggum]

ward has basically fought one style at least on the elite level. he didn't want any of bute or stevenson. tricky southpaws no thanks. i'm glad that bum is retired.

[King_]

Can anybody besides Kev give a response to this? What made Froch/Kessler special besides them beating other overrated top fighters in a weak division?



Come on Larry.... or anybody else. Are you guys going to tell me what makes Froch, Kessler, Abraham or Bika special???? (besides them all fighting each other)


Can anybody disprove what I'm saying of them: (aside from Kessler) They're all tough guys with good chins, none of them are good boxers, all of them mindlessly plod forward and they're all slow. None of them has better then above-average power and none of them have the complete skillset that Kovalev and Golovkin possess.


Anybody?

[King_]

ward has basically fought one style at least on the elite level. he didn't want any of bute or stevenson. tricky southpaws no thanks. i'm glad that bum is retired.

Do you agree with what I'm saying about Froch/Kessler/Bika/Abraham?


I can never tell if you're being sarcastic.

[LouIE G]

Murray blatantly ducked GGG once, just like all of the other top fighters at MW.


The ones he did beat, like Geale for example, (top 5) get brushed off my Golovkin haters yet those same guys ride Froch/Kessler as GREAT wins for Ward, with their only response as to what makes them special.... being they were top fighters in their divisions. So what was Geale?


Geale = Froch.

Politics happen im the world of boxing, you know that... murray is the front runner to land the fight in feb.

Geale beat alot of unknowns which in turn made him a relatively unknown fighter going into the GGG fight.....froch gained noteriety fighting guys like taylor and then being runner up in the super six tourney... so i dont agree with your Geale=froch. Comparison.... froch>geale imo