Has Ward fought anyone as skilled/good as Kovalev/Golovkin?

[Cinci Champ]

Andre Wards "resume" is so criminally overrated. Has he beaten ANYBODY at 168 who wasn't a slow, plodding, flat-footed, bar room brawling caveman? Besides Kessler. Seriously. Froch, Bika, Abraham, etc, all fight like straight up no-skilled cavemen.

IF people keep saying Kovalev and Golovkin haven't fought a boxer like Ward..... why don't people ask if Wards fought someone with the complete skillset like Kovalev/Golovkin? All the guys he beat have the attributes I just mentioned above and none of them are as skilled and as well-rounded fighters as Kovalev/Golovkin.


Kessler is the only guy (not gonna mention Dawson) Ward has beat who didn't fight like a blind caveman. And lets be honest here, Golovkin and Kovalev would decimate, spray and neuter Mikkel Kessler. Am I the only one who thinks Wards resume is criminally overrated? The reason people have him as P4P #2 is because of his magical 168lb resume.... But the truth is all the guys he beat at 168 were very overrated and he only gets the P4P status for cleaning out the division, regardless of the skill level of the opponents. If that's the case.... why don't hypocritical posters on here give Golovkin P4P credit, for example, for defeating top fighters in his division? he basically cleaned his division out by default, the so called "top fighters' at 160 blatantly ducked him.... and the ones he did beat who were top 5 in the divison, he gets no credit for . (Geale: Top 5. Macklin: Top 10)

Shouldn't Geale/Macklin = Kessler/Abraham? The latter are overrated, the former aren't very good according to Golovkin haters..... yet all were unquestionably top fighters in the divison. So what's the difference?


I believe Andre Ward is a great fighter. He beats anybody at 175 and under except Sergey Kovalev and Gennady Golovkin. But the hypocrisy in regards to Ward/Golovkin(Kovalev) on here is astounding.

What gives?



(mods this is a serious thread, not a troll thread. please don't lock.)

well u can present the fighters ward has fought anyway you want but the fact is ggg and kovalov together have literally not fought anybody. You can discredit the fighters ward has beat however you want but reality gets in the way

[Cinci Champ]

What exactly makes Kessler and Froch, Abraham and Bika more proven?


Alright, it's time to be serious here NSB..... come on, what makes Froch, Kessler, Abraham and Sakio Bika so special? Lets be honest... none of them are that good. They're all slow as molasses, flat-footed (with the exception of Kessler) and plodders. All they are are tough guys with good chins, none of them are anywhere as skilled as Golovkin/Kovalev. Golovkin and Kovalev do not have to take out the whole P4P top 10 for anybody to be able to see that. Its clear as day. Just look at their individual skillsets and compare them all


Furthermore.... lets say all of those 168lbers WERE indeed overrated. Whats the difference between Ward being so "great" because he simply fought the top in his division, and Geale (a top 5 MW at the time) simply being brushed off as no challenge. That just shows how good Golovkin is.


Geale = Abraham/Bika/Kessler/Froch..... no?


What makes those 168lbers I just mentioned so special? Besides the fact that they all fought each other? Anybody?

what makes them more proven? is that a joke no one said they were better but your trying to argue they are not more proven? come on man

[Cinci Champ]

Froch has above-average, at best power. Come on his only knockouts in his magnificent "P4P run" is against George Groves, and Lucian Bute. Bute is skilled but has a glass chin and he got KO'd by Golovkin with headgear on. Enough said. Bute is one of Froch's best wins.... and you don't think Golovkin could do to him what Froch did, when Golovkin KO'd him with headgear?

Besides that, Froch's only KO was against a shot Jermain Taylor in the late rounds. Great KO. But that hardly shows "better power" then GGG. Dude Froch went the distance with Pascal, Dirrell, Kessler and the corpse of Glen Johnson. How the hell is that better power then Golovkin? Sure, they're bigger then Golovkin's opponents, but that's not what we're arguing. Relative to Froch's size, they're the same as all of GGG's opponents were to GGG.


Froch has absolutely fantastic stamina and chin. I said that.


Now what else does he have? He's exactly what I called him! A low-skilled tough guy who fights like a caveman. He doesn't have the skill to go with his power to beat elite boxers. He doesn't do anything that Kovalev/GGG can do and you just agreed to that by saying he's better then GGG by listing the only things he does well, which are attributes of a guy who fights like a caveman.


His chin, stamina and average power make him special? Golovkin has much more then that. If those are the three things that make a so called "top SMW" special.... he's not that special. Golovkin has all of those things, plus you know, actual boxing/punching ability.


Froch is criminally overrated. I think you just unintentionally proved my point. He's a slow, plodding tough guy with a fantastic chin and great stamina. He has no boxing ability and a chin and stamina are hardly "skills." He doesn't and never had the skillset to go with his style to beat a great boxer like Ward. Golovkin and Kovalev do, and even if you say that's just my opinion..... Froch/Kessler/Bika/Abraham were all overrated and products of a bad division and weak era and hold all of the attributes that I said earlier in this thread. They're nothing more then that.

Geale = Froch. Tough guy with a good chin and stamina, beat top 160lbers and been in there with the best the division has to offer. Clearly a top 5 fighter in division when they fought Ward/Golovkin but both guys are average fighters who excel at nothing besides the attributes that make a plodding "tough guy" (chin/stamina/will/heart)

your forgetting tho ward beat these fighters in their prime. sorry man i know you like ggg and kovalov but unless your boy ggg is willing to fight ward all your doing is lip service. lets see what kovalov does to bernard tomorrow and lets see what ggg does whenever hes done trying to fight everyone but ward. Its obvious the fight ward wants is ggg and ggg needs a big name opponent what better way to break into legend mode then beating arguably the best pound for pound in the world. the only thing that dont make sense is not doing it. Seriously tho can you guys imagine a ward vs ggg fight am i the only one that thinks thats the best possible fight in boxing right now period?

[Pigeons]

Here is everything you need to know...

Gennady Golovkin, 32 years old.


Sergey Kovalev, 31 years old.


Andre Ward, 30 years old.

[NearHypnos]

Okay. Can you respond to this post?



Come on Larry.... or anybody else. Are you guys going to tell me what makes Froch, Kessler, Abraham or Bika special???? (besides them all fighting each other)


Can anybody disprove what I'm saying of them: (aside from Kessler) They're all tough guys with good chins, none of them are good boxers, all of them mindlessly plod forward and they're all slow. None of them has better then above-average power and none of them have the complete skillset that Kovalev and Golovkin possess.


Anybody?

GGG is the kind of opponent Ward has been beating by that definition (though seemingly more skilled but it could just be the power). Sure, GGG appears very skilled for a come forward type fighter but until he proves it against the best of his division it's all speculation. GGG isn't a fast, cagey, slick fighter with power which is what Ward hasn't fought...

I hear you, Ward hasn't fought a come forward fighter AS good as GGG but he's fought more successful ones. Skill doesn't always translate to success. He's more skilled than Froch, but what's to say he doesn't move up and get wrecked by guys who can take it and give it with a size advantage. Bute has more skills than Froch...didnt stop him from getting ran through. Bottom line is Ward has fought much more similar fighters to GGG than GGG has Ward. GGG hasn't even fought guys similar or as good as the guys on Wards resume. Likewise for Kova but he has a big fish on his line lets see how he handles an older Bernard (which he should imo but lets see HOW)

[Caught Square]

If Ward's resume is so criminally overrated, but is still clearly better than Kovalev and Golovkin's. What does that tell you about their level of opposition?

[Dr Rumack]

I think this thread brings up a great question, "where would Ward be without the Super Six?" Because personally I think without it Ward would have a similar career to GGG, passes the eye test, but not worth the risk/money for top guys to fight him and prove it.

If we had a Super Six MW tournament right now it would be:
Cotto
GGG
Martinez
Quillen
N'Dam
Geale

Personally I believe GGG could run through that with the same impressiveness as Ward and his Super Six. If GGG did this would he also belong in the top 5 p4p?

Have to agree, except that Ward would be more in Rigo territory than in GGG territory.

[Crazylegs77]

Wards best win is Froch, who Ward fans deem a slow slugger with a good chin. Before that cmon, Super six he faced the soft touches, Miranda who he held so much it was rediculous, Pudwill , Kessler probably the most well rounded and solid and he held held held buttted all night, ALAN GREEN , Bika who is a tough guy generally, Abraham..predictable low work rate.. tough guy but not elite. Most of his wins involved excessive holding. Ward is grossly overrated and I cant understand why. At the peak of his career he stopped fighting! How much of a fan do you have to be to not be critical of him at this point? jesus

All that being said Kovalev and GGG I disagree with their level of hype, too soon but I do find them exciting for the sport. Most importantly they keep fighting.

[From Russia]

Bika and Arthur are pure bums, drained mental midget Dawson was at 168 bum too. Kessler - ok. Froch is pretty good win.

[dan_cov]

Whilst I agree he has fought fighters with slow feet and pretty slow hands and that is the main reason I want to see him fight Andre Dirrell, Kovalev is pretty fleet-footed but he doesn't have fast hands and GGG has neither.
GGG is flat-footed and needs to be set to throw and he loads up on virtually everything. He is anything but fast, In fact I think hes borderline slow.

Completely disagree with Froch having no real boxing ability. He boxed very well against Bute, Kessler, Abraham & Groves in the second fight especially.
He boxed very well and intelligently against Groves in the second fight.