Comments Thread For: Chavez Jr: I Never Turned Down Fights, Just Extensions

[HeroBando]

Why in your mind it's take the extension or sit out, is t because you understand that he will no be given a fair deal unless he signs an extension?

I disagree it's an unfair deal, as I explained. You cant seem to decide how risky this fight is. Like you said, could be competitive,so not sure why even the big bump over Vera which was also competitive

[HeroBando]

You're more than welcome! And I will try not to overestimate your reading comprehension again. From now on, every post from me will be spelled out COMPLETELY, just so that YOU and you alone will be able to understand it!

Ok Mr Wrong. No need for hurt feelings, just own up to being wrong next time.

[KnickTillDeaTh]

What are you talking about? Chavez was a prohibitive underdog to Martinez, especially with the experts and here in NSB polls. He didn't underperform by getting near shut out, that's what everyone expected. And here you are telling me the GGG fight is competitive. So you're both wrong on Martinez, and contradicting yourself.

Dude I'm starting to get tired of talking to you because your slowly Starting to reveal a low boxing IQ.

When the fight was announced Chavez was considered a 2-1 underdog, which odds got considerably closer as fight week progressed, that's hardly prohibitive, some one has to be the underdog.

Martinez and GGG are in no way the same fighter, Martinez moves around and does not have the power to hurt Chavez. Chavez was perceived as an underdog because 1 Martinez is a better boxer, 2 people were questioning his training habits and commitment to compete on an elite level, and 3 we have never seen him fight some one who moves its a match of styles.

GGG is viewed as bigger threat because most consider him the top middleweight even when Martinez was at the top. He has 1 shot knock out power which makes him a bigger threat to Chavez, it's pretty darn simple. However if you know boxing you would that Chavez would have a better showing against a flat footed fighter rather than a fighter that moves and boxes.

I don't know how else to spell this out to you.

One more try. GGG was considered the biggest threat to Marinez in the middleweight division, Martinez was considered a threat to Chavez, so GGG is viewed by the majority of professionals as a bigger threat to Chavez the Martinez. It's real simple

[megadeth]

Ok Mr Wrong. No need for hurt feelings, just own up to being wrong next time.

Wow, it get's worse! So you are too illiterate to realize that I was asking a question and acknowledging that I didn't know the answer to the question? So because I placed a "am I wrong" at the beginning of the sentence, that indicates to you that I was claiming I know the answer? Astounding!

[Citizen Koba]

You guys....... Calm down bro obviously the you guys is an address to more people and the following post was in response to yours be real.

Any way lets get away from opinion and talk facts. Chavez purse for the Martinez fight was 3mil, PPV was an upside added to the 3 mil. so n, 2 mil plus PPV does not equal Chavez' highest pay day unless Chavez GGG sales significantly more then 475k. GGG is viewed as more dangerous, more popular, a step up, and a bigger draw then Martinez, having already debuted head lining at the big room in msg, while Martinez had to wait for a fight against the 3rd biggest star in the sport to reach the same feat. As such it stands to reason the Chavez deserves more to fight GGG then Martinez. Chavez is also considered a bigger draw based on the views he brought to HBO in his last fight.

So opinion, the offer is not legit, it was a purposeful low ball offer that Chavez was expected to turn down that way if the matter goes to court Arum can say he offered the fight with out a contract extension. It is the reason why Arum hasn't offered another fight with out a contract extension against a lesser opponent because he knows Chavez will accept there by fulfilling terms.

If your stance is "]legitimate[/I] payday (ie one demonstrably in line with his previous purses) to fight GGG " I would have to dis agree, due to the fact that Chavez' fight Purses have lowered and risen based on opponent, so as I showed above the offer is not in line because Chavez would in fact earn less then he did to fight Martinez, while Martinez is viewed as a lesser opponent then GGG.

Fair argument - we'll have to agree to differ. Naturally Arum is trying to get Jr to re-sign (am I the only one that's troubled by the fact that resign means to voluntarily leave a job, rather than to sign a contract anew? Guess my OCDs playing up again) and to that end it's not unsurprising that he'll hang out a much bigger offer and offer a lower option if he doesn't.

I'm surprised you think that a 2012 Martinez was viewed as a less popular and/or dangerous opponent that present GGG though. The build up to the Jr / Maravilla fight had been both protracted and pretty intense in my recollection.

Also GGG has never received the kind of accolades Sergio did for his PWil and Pavlik victories, and as I pointed out earlier, Jrs star has fallen somewhat from when he was the unbeaten hero ready to take on MWs best. In 2012 Maravilla was in the top 2-4 of most P4P lists though I admit his broader popularity never quite kept up with his appreciation amongst the boxing hardcore.

As I already pointed out though, while clearly Arum could have offered more to Jr, $3.5 mil is hardly a lowball (though it seems we disagree on this) but if you like reasonably in line with what he could expect given his loss and recent relatively poor performance.

What's a good analogy?

OK - you got a guy who's working for you, say.. a salesman... guy's a pain in the ass but brings in the $s.

So, he says he wants to go... he can 'make better money elsewhere', but he's still got 6 months of contract to work out. If you want him to stay do you say 'tell you what... I'll double your $60K to 120K for the next 6 months just to say thanks for all your hard work'? No. You say 'sign with me another 2 years and I'll double your pay as of today, you wanna go it's 60K til we say goodbye'.

It ain't good and it ain't pretty, but it is what it is.

[toyboy33]

I could easily see, Chavez signing with crook Bob Arum, completing a two fight extention and Arum having him sign another one. It would never end until Chavez wasn't worth anything to Bob. Sorta like he's doing to Pac.

[HeroBando]

Dude I'm starting to get tired of talking to you because your slowly Starting to reveal a low boxing IQ.

When the fight was announced Chavez was considered a 2-1 underdog, which odds got considerably closer as fight week progressed, that's hardly prohibitive, some one has to be the underdog.

Martinez and GGG are in no way the same fighter, Martinez moves around and does not have the power to hurt Chavez. Chavez was perceived as an underdog because 1 Martinez is a better boxer, 2 people were questioning his training habits and commitment to compete on an elite level, and 3 we have never seen him fight some one who moves its a match of styles.

GGG is viewed as bigger threat because most consider him the top middleweight even when Martinez was at the top. He has 1 shot knock out power which makes him a bigger threat to Chavez, it's pretty darn simple. However if you know boxing you would that Chavez would have a better showing against a flat footed fighter rather than a fighter that moves and boxes.

I don't know how else to spell this out to you.

One more try. GGG was considered the biggest threat to Marinez in the middleweight division, Martinez was considered a threat to Chavez, so GGG is viewed by the majority of professionals as a bigger threat to Chavez the Martinez. It's real simple

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=563568

http://www.boxingscene.com/staff-predictions-julio-cesar-chavez-vs-sergio-martinez--57138

http://******.craveonline.com/news/1...sk-the-experts

Chavez was given very little chance by experts and posters alike. And youre now telling me GGG is stylewise easier for Chavez and expect a competitive fight (few did for Sergio). You need to stop co ntradicting yourself.

[KnickTillDeaTh]

Fair argument - we'll have to agree to differ. Naturally Arum is trying to get Jr to re-sign (am I the only one that's troubled by the fact that resign means to voluntarily leave a job, rather than to sign a contract anew? Guess my OCDs playing up again) and to that end it's not unsurprising that he'll hang out a much bigger offer and offer a lower option if he doesn't.

I'm surprised you think that a 2012 Martinez was viewed as a less popular and/or dangerous opponent that present GGG though. The build up to the Jr / Maravilla fight had been both protracted and pretty intense in my recollection.

Also GGG has never received the kind of accolades Sergio did for his PWil and Pavlik victories, and as I pointed out earlier, Jrs star has fallen somewhat from when he was the unbeaten hero ready to take on MWs best. In 2012 Maravilla was in the top 2-4 of most P4P lists though I admit his broader popularity never quite kept up with his appreciation amongst the boxing hardcore.

As I already pointed out though, while clearly Arum could have offered more to Jr, $3.5 mil is hardly a lowball (though it seems we disagree on this) but if you like reasonably in line with what he could expect given his loss and recent relatively poor performance.

What's a good analogy?

OK - you got a guy who's working for you, say.. a salesman... guy's a pain in the ass but brings in the $s.

So, he says he wants to go... he can 'make better money elsewhere', but he's still got 6 months of contract to work out. If you want him to stay do you say 'tell you what... I'll double your $60K to 120K for the next 6 months just to say thanks for all your hard work'? No. You say 'sign with me another 2 years and I'll double your pay as of today, you wanna go it's 60K til we say goodbye'.

It ain't good and it ain't pretty, but it is what it is.

The thing is I'm not the only one who feels GGG is a bigger draw. Hbo has gone all I more then they ever did for Martinez. We're not comparing what the fighter has done we are comparing popularity. GGG has already headlined Msg with out ever having fought anyone popular. Hbo admitted to making a mistake and being admonished for not broadcasting GGG s fight against a nobody, Lampley spoke about that on HBO during GGG s last fight. I'm not saying it's right that GGG is more popular but he is

[KnickTillDeaTh]

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=563568

http://www.boxingscene.com/staff-predictions-julio-cesar-chavez-vs-sergio-martinez--57138

http://******.craveonline.com/news/1...sk-the-experts

Chavez was given very little chance by experts and posters alike. And youre now telling me GGG is stylewise easier for Chavez and expect a competitive fight (few did for Sergio). You need to stop co ntradicting yourself.

I have not contradicted anything you lack the boxing knowledge to understand.

Here's articles based on REAL odds for the fight. You post links to the same people who thought Martinez would annihilate Cotto and that's what you consider a strong argument?

http://www.fightsaga.com/news/item/2568-Martinez-vs-Chavez-Jr-Odds-Outcome-No-Longer-a-No-Brainer

http://www.badlefthook.com/2012/9/14/3333654/chavez-jr-vs-martinez-odds-preview-canelo-vs-lopez-boxing-betting-news

My last response to you thanks for the convo

[HeroBando]

I have not contradicted anything you lack the boxing knowledge to understand.

Here's articles based on REAL odds for the fight. You post links to the same people who thought Martinez would annihilate Cotto and that's what you consider a strong argument?

http://www.fightsaga.com/news/item/2568-Martinez-vs-Chavez-Jr-Odds-Outcome-No-Longer-a-No-Brainer

http://www.badlefthook.com/2012/9/14/3333654/chavez-jr-vs-martinez-odds-preview-canelo-vs-lopez-boxing-betting-news

My last response to you thanks for the convo

You brought up pre vs post fight perceptions, and claimed it's only obvious after the fact that Martinez would school Chavez. Totally wrong, Martinez schooling Chavez was the most popular expert/poster prediction.