The Muhammad Ali who beat Cleveland Williams...

[beez721]

My god, someone likes to flame the **** out of a thread huh?

Cleveland was past his best but still a good puncher, ali was just on point that night and knew of the shot to the gut and if you notice he does hit him to the body which ali hardly did in any fight. I say the best version of ali was the first liston fight. Too fast

yea,,,anyone who thinks cleveland wasnt a big puncher is delusional. there's not too many heavies that would have won more than a couple rounds against ali that night. I agree he also looked sharp against liston. amazing the guys he was still able to beat in his comeback when that dazzling foot speed was gone

[Elroy1]

yea,,,anyone who thinks cleveland wasnt a big puncher is delusional. there's not too many heavies that would have won more than a couple rounds against ali that night. I agree he also looked sharp against liston. amazing the guys he was still able to beat in his comeback when that dazzling foot speed was gone

Cleveland was NOT a big puncher. The delusion I assure you is not in this camp. Nobody looking at that picture of Williams can mistake him for what we would today consider a big hitter. There is no "special punching technique" he could employ that would enable him to pack a punch even close to what we would expect from a HW boxer today.

On the contrary, I could enumerate many HW's without even thinking that would have wiped that Ali straight out, without even breaking a sweat.

Again, Tua's demolition of Moorer = better than Ali's dismantling of handicapped Williams (of any Williams). And Wilder's career to date = greater than Ali's 1st career.

Liston 1 Ali was a string bean of even worse calibre, he would have been eliminated by any decent HW from the mid 80's onwards.

And again, show me where Ali actually BEAT Liston???

AND MOST IMPORTANTLY Beez...

Just imagine if somebody like Deontay Wilder or Michael Grant or David Tua or Andrew Golota or Chris Arreola were presented with an opponent like Cleveland?

I just named 5 guys from the modern era who haven't even won a title who would have dispatched Cleveland in far more decisive and faster fashion than Ali ever did. I doubt they would let Cleveland run around for a few rounds.

Incidentally I just mentioned 5 guys right there too, who would have finished that version of Ali without any question without any real problems. 5 guys who never even won a title.

So much for your theory "Nobody could win more than a couple of rounds" What a laugh!

[Elroy1]

Another fantasy of Beez..

"The footwork of Ali of the 60's"

Sure, Ali 1 had faster footwork than Ali 2. But that footwork was largely nothing more than "running".

Sorry but I almost never score for the runner. Runner "avoid" the fight. You can see clearly throughout Ali1's career, that he was hit at will as soon as his opponent was in range. The ONLY reason Ali1 was able to beat up most of his opponents ultimately was because he was BIGGER than they were, and in the case of Liston, MUCH quicker, a given considering that Liston is possibly the slowest HW boxer of all time. (quite possible).

Funny thaty come the 70's, his opponents were bigger, had better records and were a more higher class of boxer overall.

It's a no brainer than Ali began to struggle more. He couldn't get AWAY with such rubbish techniques he did in the 60's!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2S8MbKDeByI

This^ is what happens when a featherfist runner meets a modern HW boxer. Sit back and watch what would be the fate of Ali were he to have the misfortune of being born a couple decades later

[bojangles1987]

Why is anyone responding to Elroy? Unless it's your first time seeing these posts, you should know better.

[Elroy1]

Why is anyone responding to Elroy? Unless it's your first time seeing these posts, you should know better.

Who the hell are you and what of any intelligence have you ever had to contribute?

Get lost!

[Ray Corso]

Ignore...............he's just a ToooooL!!

[beez721]

Ignore...............he's just a ToooooL!!

yea,,,Im finally starting to realize hes just trolling. nobody can be that clueless

[LacedUp]

Why is anyone responding to Elroy? Unless it's your first time seeing these posts, you should know better.

Who the hell are you and what of any intelligence have you ever had to contribute?

Get lost!

I think you'll find that 100% of this forum would say he contributes a lot more to this forum than you do.

And he's had plenty of intelligent, knowledgable and insightful things to contribute. Unlike you who's just an obsessed hater with no common sense.

[LacedUp]

Really? Foreman said Williams was the hardest puncher did he even though it was only sparring.

Even though he declared elsewhere that it was an "actual" hard puncher named Ron Lyle? Seems a bit of a conundrum.

Even though he fought Tommy Morrison and Shannon Briggs who are obviously harder punchers than either!

So let's be clear here, your saying THIS Cleveland Williams...

http://resources0.news.com.au/images...853583-jpg.jpg

was a harder puncher than THIS Tommy Morrison...

http://www.thesweetscience.com/image...orrison7.0.jpg

Or THIS Shannon Briggs?

http://www.prlog.org/10871225-shannon-briggs.jpg

Have another drink man.

I never felt any of those guys punches. I'm just saying what George Foreman said. Maybe it was because both those guys ran like girls from Foreman.

Liston also said Williams was the hardest puncher he faced.

I'm still going to trust men who are not only ATG heavyweights, but also shared the ring with the man rather than a guy who's looking at weight and thinking higher weight = harder punch.

[Elroy1]

Well you can believe in word of mouth if you like but I think I would rather believe in my own eyes.

Williams is a hard puncher ey

Who cares if most of his KO victims were CW's, what does that matter right.

You guys will just promote anything to make your boy look good.

And nothing you claim even remotely revolves around common sense.