The Muhammad Ali who beat Cleveland Williams...

[Daddy T]

I did not say he was greater than Ali overall.

In relative terms Ali is of course greater than Wilder.

I just said that Wilder would knock Ali out very early.

And that in absolute terms Wilder's career so far has **** all over Ali's 1st career.

Both are indisputable facts.

I dispute them ...

[HughJass]

Well you can believe in word of mouth if you like but I think I would rather believe in my own eyes.

Williams is a hard puncher ey

Who cares if most of his KO victims were CW's, what does that matter right.

You guys will just promote anything to make your boy look good.

And nothing you claim even remotely revolves around common sense.

Check your profile ****!

[hayZ]

People need to realise Cleveland Williams was a LEGIT THREAT vs Ali at that point. He also had real power and a lot of experience. Some of those shots that just missed Ali looked real strong too, it's just that Ali made him look slow, so average kind of like Floyd did to Marquez. Williams was past his best, sure.

[New England]

Cleveland began in 1952 he fought Ali in 1966 not exactly the same era!!!!
He knew how to box and had good height and reach.
he lost to Satterfield and Liston and theres no shame in that, he was a fringe contender for many years.
Ali was in his 24th or 25th fight when Williams got his shot so it wasn't a straight up contest Cleveland had plenty of miles on him.

mr.fantastic.....Don't know what you mean by running...........Ali took it right to him obviously you never watched the fight!

Ray.

williams was also shot in the hip / abdomen area in the mid 60's. he almost died. he lost 60 lbs, and had parts of several organs repaired or removed.

[New England]

People need to realise Cleveland Williams was a LEGIT THREAT vs Ali at that point. He also had real power and a lot of experience. Some of those shots that just missed Ali looked real strong too, it's just that Ali made him look slow, so average kind of like Floyd did to Marquez. Williams was past his best, sure.

he was, but he wasn't a historic great fighter.


williams was a very athletic dude, he was big, and he knew how to fight. he was a contender in the 50's and 60's which was a pretty decent HW era.

i have no doubt thaty williams would give the povetkins, stivernes, furies, and pulevs of the world a lot of trouble.

[LacedUp]

Well you can believe in word of mouth if you like but I think I would rather believe in my own eyes.

Williams is a hard puncher ey

Who cares if most of his KO victims were CW's, what does that matter right.

You guys will just promote anything to make your boy look good.

And nothing you claim even remotely revolves around common sense.

I wonder what you'll say when they create a super heavy division at 235 and above.

Then Wlad's resume will suddenly stink to high heaven.

That's the kind of logic you use.

[LacedUp]

People need to realise Cleveland Williams was a LEGIT THREAT vs Ali at that point. He also had real power and a lot of experience. Some of those shots that just missed Ali looked real strong too, it's just that Ali made him look slow, so average kind of like Floyd did to Marquez. Williams was past his best, sure.

If we're honest, he wasn't legit threat to Ali. Not at that point.

He wasn't really ranked in the top and his best years were behind him. He was a good fighter with a knockout punch, but Ali was expected to knock him out.

[Syf]

Doesn't matter.... you may not be able to judge some things against weaker opposition, such as punching power and intangibles, but you can judge form. I can judge form from watching someone hit the heavy bag and do mittwork... can't yall? Let alone watching them fight.

That fight Ali was nigh unstoppable I agree. His form was impeccable.

[Elroy1]

People need to realise Cleveland Williams was a LEGIT THREAT vs Ali at that point. He also had real power and a lot of experience. Some of those shots that just missed Ali looked real strong too, it's just that Ali made him look slow, so average kind of like Floyd did to Marquez. Williams was past his best, sure.

I cannot believe you would even try to promote Williams as a kegitimate threat to Muhammad Ali at that point.

Ask any doctors opinion or show me anybody else, who could come back after 1 year of being shot in the abdomen suffering major surgical intervestion, organ removal and wasting prior to a HW title fight? It's a joke.

Yet if that same thing occurred today, you would be all over it!

That's the double standards that so many of you on this forum choose to perpetuate.

And Ray, I was not specifically insisting on Ali running in the Williams fight, I am simply saying that MOST of Ali's footwork in the 60's was "running" overall.

Ali vs Williams and Ali vs Terrell were in fact the only 2 fights in which he really did look good.

The same can be said of Wladimir vs Leapai or Wladimir vs Pianeta.

Except Nobody CLAIMS Wladimir is the greatest for beating those types of opponents! Just for a perspective example!

[Elroy1]

If we're honest, he wasn't legit threat to Ali. Not at that point.

He wasn't really ranked in the top and his best years were behind him. He was a good fighter with a knockout punch, but Ali was expected to knock him out.

Case in point^^^