The Muhammad Ali who beat Cleveland Williams...

[Elroy1]

I wonder what you'll say when they create a super heavy division at 235 and above.

Then Wlad's resume will suddenly stink to high heaven.

That's the kind of logic you use.

Well they would not raise it to 235 would they because people are not big enough to warrant that yet are they.

But let's say they eventually do something much more likely. Raise the cruiser and heavy limits so that the HW limit is 215.

Several modern boxers would still be in good stead and in particular 4 of the greatest boxers, Vitali K, Wladimir K, Lennox Lewis and Mike Tyson, it would be clear that they were the TRUE hard hitters of history being able to whack out the highest quality opposition of a truly "Heavyweight" nature.

Imaging that people become gigantic enough 100-200 years in the future to warrant a 235lb class of boxer. At that time, if I was still alive, I WOULD DEFINITELY NOT try to promote W.Klitschko's KO powers or capabilities onto the new class with the same efficacy because that would be incredibly naïve and ******.

The same naïve and ****** that you are all being today!

Tua KO Moorer > Ali KO Williams

[LacedUp]

Well they would not raise it to 235 would they because people are not big enough to warrant that yet are they.

But let's say they eventually do something much more likely. Raise the cruiser and heavy limits so that the HW limit is 215.

Several modern boxers would still be in good stead and in particular 4 of the greatest boxers, Vitali K, Wladimir K, Lennox Lewis and Mike Tyson, it would be clear that they were the TRUE hard hitters of history being able to whack out the highest quality opposition of a truly "Heavyweight" nature.

Imaging that people become gigantic enough 100-200 years in the future to warrant a 235lb class of boxer. At that time, if I was still alive, I WOULD DEFINITELY NOT try to promote W.Klitschko's KO powers or capabilities onto the new class with the same efficacy because that would be incredibly naïve and ******.

The same naïve and ****** that you are all being today!

Tua KO Moorer > Ali KO Williams

Lets say they raise it to 230 then. A D we're not talking 100-200 years ahead

Ali fought 35-45 years ago. Anyways, according to your book of logic, the governing bodies have the power to instantly make Wlad/Lennox/Vitali resume crap by simply raising the CW limit to 230 or making a new super heavy division.

That just doesn't make sense. Just because there's that bar is raised doesn't make Byrd any more or less of a fighter for instance. But according to you he would instantly be a cruiser bum.

[Elroy1]

Lets say they raise it to 230 then. A D we're not talking 100-200 years ahead

Ali fought 35-45 years ago. Anyways, according to your book of logic, the governing bodies have the power to instantly make Wlad/Lennox/Vitali resume crap by simply raising the CW limit to 230 or making a new super heavy division.

That just doesn't make sense. Just because there's that bar is raised doesn't make Byrd any more or less of a fighter for instance. But according to you he would instantly be a cruiser bum.

That is absolutely not what I am saying at all.

Neither Ali or Byrd or Wladimir would ever have a "bum resume" no matter what they raised the limit too because regardless of weight, they all won most of their fights!

What it would do however, is cause me to focus on what portion of that boxer, whether Ali, Byrd or Wlad's or whoever's, actually applies to the new class. And what kind of performance these boxers actually HAD in this new class.

It turns out that Ali's career, and Byrds, were a combination of lighter weight range fights (in Ali's case CW) and HW.

For Ali, in fact, HALF of his fights were below the CW limit. Therefore were they to raise the limit to 230, I would not turn to Wladimir's fights against opponents like Byrd and Chambers etc where he beat opponents much smaller when he was above the limit.

I would include his 2 losses though where he was above the limit and beaten by 2 guys (Brewster and Sanders) that were below it for obvious reasons and fairness.

So no the governing bodies do not make a resume crap overall. But they do affect what class their resume represents should they change the definition of what it means to be a heavyweight.

Ali fought 32 times against what today we call HW opponents. He was beaten 4 times. He was no bum.

But he fought a very poorly skilled class of opponents by comparison to what came later and it's ridiculous to assume a good showing against an opponent like Williams is a proof of his greatness.

Williams, as he was, would never be a professional boxer today. There is not a boxer in the top 50 at HW with which he could mount a successful fight against.

He is far smaller than almost any HW today, side by side it would be so striking it'd be laughable.

Sure there are a few guys of comparable size. Adamek and Haye are only a bit bigger. Cunningham, Byrd and Chambers are about the same size.

But compare these guys to Williams, they are all highly slick and super fast. Williams by contrast is a stationary puncher. I am sorry but if you are going to rock up to modern HW with that kind of style at 212 lbs you'd better bring a coffin.