Victor Conte : JMM is Doping and Big time.

[Divine Hammer]

It is silly, but you've gotta understand that Conte and Heredia are literally at war everyday online. Moreso, Conte. Conte attacks Heredia literally everyday on Twitter. And Conte is a huge advocate of VADA, and is condescending towards anything other than VADA. So I can see why VADA was of no interest to Team Marquez (because Heredia is against Conte).

Bradley assumed Pacquaio was willing to do any testing, but he thought wrong. Arum calls the shots when it comes to Pacquaio, and Arum was never a fan of VADA. He only allowed for Pacquaio to use VADA with Rios because the fight was being held outside of Nevada (NSAC cannot test other fighters that won't be fighting inside of Nevada for obvious reasons). But Arum is not a fan of VADA, nor USADA.

so then why not shut conte the hell up by having his fighter pass VADA testing? only reason conte hates on heredia is because NONE of heredia's fighters have gone through USADA or VADA testing.

[Public_Enemy]

how is it silly for one fighter to do USADA and the other to do VADA? both are credible and follow WADA guidelines, right?

and the difference between the testign for pac vs bradley and marquez vs bradley is that bradley confirmed pac was willing to do ANY testing including VADA, but for one reason or another arum and nsac decided they wanted to do the extra testing. plus pac has done VADA testing before so he has proven that he is willing to do any testing.

in the bradley vs marquez case, marquez refused VADA outright.

Testing should be done by both fighters using the same organization imo. But if you say that both USADA and VADA are credible and follow WADA guidelines then surely you don't have a problem with Marquez being tested with the stricter commission testing that follows WADA guidelines. So this begs the question what exactly is your issue with this?

Again, you're not seeing the parallel between the situations. Pacquiao may have been willing verbally but unless he took VADA when facing Bradley he basically declined VADA testing. Bradley still did VADA testing for the fight. Pacquiao could have done the same. And I'm not accusing Pacquiao of anything. I'm just pointing out the parallels between these situations.

[radioraheem]

i doubt this other testing agency is as stringent as VADA. it definitely doesn't carry the same credibility as VADA.

and again margaret goodman has said on numerous occasions that she and conte are good friends and that she initially sought conte in order to help educate her on the world of doping and that's it.

and how is it unusual for conte to say what VADA tests for and how they test? if they follow WADA guidelines then whatever WADA deems as illegal is what they test for, right? and just because he knows how they test is su****ious as well? like i said before margaret goodman is good friends with conte so she probably just told him. it's not like conte controls how testing is done.

and maybe the sponsorship has to do with the fact that they seek conte's help and use his nutrition products. isn't edwin rodriguez involved in VADA testing? same with provodnikov?

but this idea that conte ever had any control or influence over vada should have died when berto was caught for an illegal substance. it's no unusual for conte to be a big supporter or friend of margaret goodman and her company.

No matter how you try to spin it, it is not a good thing when an infamous convicted drug peddler has ties to your drug testing organization. There is a benefit, in that you can get key tips from a guy like that. But then there are the disadvantages, where you automatically take a hit to your reputation by having ties. Plus, the infamous peddler can be using his relationship to find out more key information about how to maybe BEAT tests, etc. You cannot say for sure what his motive is.

USADA has no ties with Conte, and won't even answer his phone calls, and for a very good reason. They aren't willing to risk their reputation by associating with a guy like that. VADA was willing to take the risk though. When Conte mentioned what they test for, he said it to Ariza over Twitter. He just mentioned HOW/WHEN they test for certain substances. He was explaining how Rios got caught for a positive for a fight night sample, and not before that. He told Ariza that VADA doesn't test for stimulants before a fight. They only test for that on fight night.

NSAC's random drug testing, again, is just as good as VADA's and USADA's. They just don't have the same reputation because they are the newest. But VADA has only been around for 2 years, that's very new as well.

[wiz1030]

No matter how you try to spin it, it is not a good thing when an infamous convicted drug peddler has ties to your drug testing organization. There is a benefit, in that you can get key tips from a guy like that. But then there are the disadvantages, where you automatically take a hit to your reputation by having ties. Plus, the infamous peddler can be using his relationship to find out more key information about how to maybe BEAT tests, etc. You cannot say for sure what his motive is.

USADA has no ties with Conte, and won't even answer his phone calls, and for a very good reason. They aren't willing to risk their reputation by associating with a guy like that. VADA was willing to take the risk though. When Conte mentioned what they test for, he said it to Ariza over Twitter. He just mentioned HOW/WHEN they test for certain substances. He was explaining how Rios got caught for a positive for a fight night sample, and not before that. He told Ariza that VADA doesn't test for stimulants before a fight. They only test for that on fight night.

NSAC's random drug testing, again, is just as good as VADA's and USADA's. They just don't have the same reputation because they are the newest. But VADA has only been around for 2 years, that's very new as well.

Are you certain NSAC is actually doing testing itself now? From what I've heard NSAC contracts an outside agency. For instance, they used WADA to administer testing for Bradley Marquez if I'm not mistaken.

[Divine Hammer]

Testing should be done by both fighters using the same organization imo. But if you say that both USADA and VADA are credible and follow WADA guidelines then surely you don't have a problem with Marquez being tested with the stricter commission testing that follows WADA guidelines. So this begs the question what exactly is your issue with this?

Again, you're not seeing the parallel between the situations. Pacquiao may have been willing verbally but unless he took VADA when facing Bradley he basically declined VADA testing. Bradley still did VADA testing for the fight. Pacquiao could have done the same. And I'm not accusing Pacquiao of anything. I'm just pointing out the parallels between situations.

yes i wouldn't mind if the agency that is used followed WADA guidelines AND is also credible. if USADA wasn't going to test as well then VADA should have done the testing, it was already established and had already done good work catching boxers for illegal substances (including one of conte's fighters), but marquez refused and so nsac and arum had to bring in another testing agency.

and bradley went on record as saying that manny was willing to do any testing, but i guess arum and nsac wanted to do the extra testing that they had recently set up with that other agency.

so how is that pacquiao refusing? that's just pac following what arum says again. and yes pac probably could have done testing with VADA as well, but he most likely didn't see the point of getting tested randomly by two different agencies at the same time. i mean you talk about USADA testing one guy and VADA testing another guy as silly, but getting tested randomly by two different agencies at the same time isn't silly to you? at the end of the day bradley didn't have a problem because he believed pac wanted to do any form of testing and pac proved he could do VADA as shown in his fight with rios. so there is no issue.

the difference that YOU are missing is that marquez refused VADA so arum and nsac had to bring in another agency to salvage the fight. pac was willing to do ANY testing but arum and nsac wanted their own testing for the fight.

[Suckmedry]

This speculation is still just that. Speculation. Innocent until proven guilty is always the best policy IMO.

However, from watching the man fight, i have noticed he does seem to be punching harder, just as fast if not maybe faster, and this coming at age 40. The acne is very weird but I'm not putting as much stock into it as others. It could be from shaving his chest idk.

That right hand on Alvarado was fcking scary man. That punch looked like it was thrown by a damn middleweight or something, and a hard punching one at that.

[radioraheem]

Are you certain NSAC is actually doing testing itself now? From what I've heard NSAC contracts an outside agency. For instance, they used WADA to administer testing for Bradley Marquez if I'm not mistaken.

They don't use 'WADA' really. They hire folks to take the samples, and the samples get sent to a WADA accredited lab, specifically the one in Utah. VADA does this exact same thing, they hire people to take the samples.

[radioraheem]

the difference that YOU are missing is that marquez refused VADA so arum and nsac had to bring in another agency to salvage the fight. pac was willing to do ANY testing but arum and nsac wanted their own testing for the fight.

Arum didn't bring in NSAC to salvage the fight. VADA nor USADA existed in the contract with Bradley. Only that there would indeed be random drug testing done.

[Suckmedry]

But hey, using that logic one could definitely make an accusation against pacquiao too. He was a former fcking flyweight standing 5"6 who put beatings on the likes of margarita and cotto, full fledged Welters.

And Floyd, not so much in the maidana fight but in a couple others, was looking nothing like a 30 something year old man in The way he moved. Plus he was looking way beefier and cut.

[Divine Hammer]

Arum didn't bring in NSAC to salvage the fight. VADA nor USADA existed in the contract with Bradley. Only that there would indeed be random drug testing done.

you can believe arum if you want, but bradley said it was VADA or USADA or no fight. bradley was publicly threatening to walk away.

the nsac random testing didn't exist before the marquez vs bradley fight because if fighters wanted to do random testing they'd bring in USADA and/or VADA. but marquez refused so the new random testing was created in order to save the fight.