Cuauhtemoc1520's take on this weekend 5\17\14

[Russian Crushin]

Great post as usual Cua, but ill bite at the PED part.

PEDs are no longer the primitive 50's soviet era steroids that just make you muscles bigger and make you stronger. There are designer drugs now that can do wonders in many aspects of athletics and many are undetectable. Steroids can make you stronger, give you better stamina, and make you heal many times faster. Imagine getting a drug that allows you to train one day and heal fast enough to train the next day at the same pace. Or a drug that gives you an amazing boost of stamina so you can finish a fight feeling the same in round 12 as round 1. Or a drug that makes you more explosive. All of these things are basically possible with todays drugs. Now It wont make the average joe into FLoyd or pac but it can make a great fighter that much better.

During the 90s baseball steroids era, there were rejections saying that PEDs cant give you better timing or make you hit the ball better, yet pretty much all of the best homerun hitters of the last 25 years have either tested positive or been heavily tied to PEDs. Now im not saying JMM is on them but i would not be surprised in the least, they can do wonders and theres a reason so many fighters and athletes risk so much to use them, and thats because they work

[Cuauhtémoc1520]

I agree with the posters. You should do this after every important fight.

Also, what you said about drugs not being able to make you more skilled, I wholeheartedly agree. All this talk in the lead up to the fight focusing on PEDS as if these things are "be all, end all" for boxing and that they automatically determine who wins a fight, is wrong. JMM has always been one of the best COMBINATION counterpunchers for years. That's been evident since his first with Pacquiao, his amazing war with Juan Díaz in their first meeting, the third round with Katsidis where he gets dropped like a sack of potatoes and at the end of the round regains his senses and rips into Katsidis with 8-9 punch combination to both the body and head. PEDS don't do that, years of training do that. You practice for so long and for so many hours that it becomes natural as breathing. Your opponent makes a mistake and you don't even think about how you're going to punish him, you just know when and how.

Having said that and looking ahead, what do you think of a 5th fight between Pacquiao-Márquez? Do you want to see it again?

I remember being adamantly against a third fight, because to me, their score was 1 Pacquiao, with 1 even. I kept thinking that if Márquez won the third fight, then we'd be stuck with 1-1-1...an even trilogy. Then they'd have to do it again. Lo and behold, when they announced the 4th fight, I was against it as well, mainly because I thought the fourth fight would taint the trilogy an that it would not be as good as the previous 3. Remember Márquez-Vásquez 4 and its anti-climactic ending?

And I was wrong again. I did not think that two fighters could produce great fights EVERY SINGLE TIME, and they did. It was probably the best fight out of all of them and it would've been even better had it gone on longer. At this point, I honestly wouldn't mind a fifth fight. Considering how both fighters have never flaked out in their careers, the legion of fans that will pack the arena, the power-punching styles they possess, a fifth fight would most likely be greater, if not just as great, as any of the previous 4 wars.

For me, I don't want to see a 5th fight because the 4th ended in the perfect manner. That's whether it was JMM getting KO'd or Pac.

I had the first 2 fights the way they were decided, but I had JMM winning a close 3rd fight. So justice was in a sense served in the last fight and like JMM said, he wants it to stay that way in the mind of Mexican fans. Arum might throw so much money JMM's way that he won't be able to decline that fight.

It would be a great fight but I would honestly want to see Pac vs Mayweather. I know many people here think it won't happen, but I have a feeling with the recent comments by GB and Arum, we might actually see this fight finally before Mayweather calls it a career.

[Cuauhtémoc1520]

Why would you have to throw Mosley and Pac and a whole other guys in there if you suspect marquez? Marquez is on a whole other level.

Pacquiao is 35 and doesn't have abs anymore and Mosley has been shot for awhile now, even with Mayweather you can say he's lost his legs.

What has Marquez lost? he is 2 months shy of 41 and what has he lost that he had in his prime? he can still go to war, arguably more power than ever, no stamina issues, can bounce around for 12 rd's, all coincidentally after joining a guy who's motto is "peak performances without doping is a fairytale" while displaying a new body that alone had people su****ious.

You can't compare Marquez to anyone else, he's dishing out as much evidence that's possible without actually being caught and i dont think you can do it with any other fighter atm, although we can all suspect any and everyone.

Good Breakdown though.

There isn't a set age at where you start to decline, it's different for everyone. Sometimes 32 is old, sometimes 40 is young.

My point is that Pac came from 106lbs to knocking out welters. Mosley was deep into his career and still fighting at a high level.

You are trying to make it seems as though there's a set age and there isn't. I don't think JMM is the same fighter he was 5-6 years ago as far as speed and quickness, but the skill is still there.

[Cuauhtémoc1520]

Great post as usual Cua, but ill bite at the PED part.

PEDs are no longer the primitive 50's soviet era steroids that just make you muscles bigger and make you stronger. There are designer drugs now that can do wonders in many aspects of athletics and many are undetectable. Steroids can make you stronger, give you better stamina, and make you heal many times faster. Imagine getting a drug that allows you to train one day and heal fast enough to train the next day at the same pace. Or a drug that gives you an amazing boost of stamina so you can finish a fight feeling the same in round 12 as round 1. Or a drug that makes you more explosive. All of these things are basically possible with todays drugs. Now It wont make the average joe into FLoyd or pac but it can make a great fighter that much better.

During the 90s baseball steroids era, there were rejections saying that PEDs cant give you better timing or make you hit the ball better, yet pretty much all of the best homerun hitters of the last 25 years have either tested positive or been heavily tied to PEDs. Now im not saying JMM is on them but i would not be surprised in the least, they can do wonders and theres a reason so many fighters and athletes risk so much to use them, and thats because they work

I hear you and don't disagree but I also think that what JMM does isn't a result of just PED's IF he's on them. That is decades of boxing and training with some of the best in the world.

Those combos', that accuracy is just on another level and I don't care if the PED's are making him a split second faster, that is a learned skill. Plus like Tinta said, it's not like he hasn't been doing those same exact things for 20 years now.

It's not like JMM magically learned to box, he's been this guy for 20 years. The red flag is that he's 40 and STILL doing it...lol

PED's can make you punch harder, be faster and recover faster as an older fighter. What they can't make you do is learn to counter punch like Marquez. He's taken his learned skills and natural ability, and combined it with incredible work ethic and MAYBE some chemical enhancements...lol

That's a lethal combination but he's not the only one IF he's doing it. It's world wide, and spread across a varied range of sports on the planet.

[Russian Crushin]

I hear you and don't disagree but I also think that what JMM does isn't a result of just PED's IF he's on them. That is decades of boxing and training with some of the best in the world.

Those combos', that accuracy is just on another level and I don't care if the PED's are making him a split second faster, that is a learned skill. Plus like Tinta said, it's not like he hasn't been doing those same exact things for 20 years now.

It's not like JMM magically learned to box, he's been this guy for 20 years. The red flag is that he's 40 and STILL doing it...lol

PED's can make you punch harder, be faster and recover faster as an older fighter. What they can't make you do is learn to counter punch like Marquez. He's taken his learned skills and natural ability, and combined it with incredible work ethic and MAYBE some chemical enhancements...lol

That's a lethal combination but he's not the only one IF he's doing it. It's world wide, and spread across a varied range of sports on the planet.

JMM is clearly skilled, injecting a PED into his body wont make the average guy into JMM. But being a great fighter and also getting a boost from PEDs can have amazing results. Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa and Mark McGuire were all great hitters when they entered baseball but theres a reason they began shattering baseball records, all around the same time. Did PEDs give them better timing and teach them how to see the baseball better? I cant say for sure but its no coincidence that they were some of the biggest users of PEDs. PEDs will make a great athlete that much better.

And for me the fact that JMM has been a pro for 22 years, and boxing for like 30+, has moved up many weight divisions around the age when most fighters retire and is looking more powerful and as good as ever is my main red flag. He also fights and takes damage in many fights and he doesnt seem to be aging or really slowing down at all

Maybe he is, maybe he isnt, but i suspect just about every top fighter to be either on PEDs or taken them sometime in their career

[Weltschmerz]

JMM is one of the most juiced up fighters to ever come out of Mexico.

[raf727]

I agree with everything except drugs not making you better.

If you are juicing, you can work out longer and harder with less recovery time. Which equals more time on the bag, more mitt work, more sparring, etc. which over time will definitely have an effect on your skill set, IMO

[Cuauhtémoc1520]

JMM is clearly skilled, injecting a PED into his body wont make the average guy into JMM. But being a great fighter and also getting a boost from PEDs can have amazing results. Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa and Mark McGuire were all great hitters when they entered baseball but theres a reason they began shattering baseball records, all around the same time. Did PEDs give them better timing and teach them how to see the baseball better? I cant say for sure but its no coincidence that they were some of the biggest users of PEDs. PEDs will make a great athlete that much better.

And for me the fact that JMM has been a pro for 22 years, and boxing for like 30+, has moved up many weight divisions around the age when most fighters retire and is looking more powerful and as good as ever is my main red flag. He also fights and takes damage in many fights and he doesnt seem to be aging or really slowing down at all

Maybe he is, maybe he isnt, but i suspect just about every top fighter to be either on PEDs or taken them sometime in their career

Again, I don't disagree with you. I just think that comparing baseball to boxing isn't really fair.

Barry Bonds was a HOF player before juicing. So was Sosa. JMM like them, had the skills and if he is juicing, it's definitely extending his career.

My only point is that some (not you) are saying that it's purely the drugs. I just disagree because his skill is all his own.

I agree with everything except drugs not making you better.

If you are juicing, you can work out longer and harder with less recovery time. Which equals more time on the bag, more mitt work, more sparring, etc. which over time will definitely have an effect on your skill set, IMO

He had that skill set before he supposedly started juicing though. That was my only point, of course PED's can make you better, if they didn't athletes wouldn't take them.

I'm just saying that JMM is skillful, and those drugs didn't magically give him those skills.

[Ray Corso]

A gift match up for Juan coming off a tuff loss to Tim.
First off an elimination bout? Both LOST in their last fights!
This garbage just go 12 when it should have been a 10 rounder. If a 10 round fight and Mike starts to fight in round 3 we have a hell of a bout to watch!
ANYTHING could happen but it didn't happen. They know the script, it's been written and everyone has seen when the "opponent" is brought in they act accordingly, it's same ol' same ol'...BS boxing!!!

Occasionally we can see a real fight break out in a boxing match ala Tim vs Rocky but after Mike felt Rocky did anyone really think he would come to fight Juan? These match ups are calculated carefully and the outcome is obvious.

Juan is on Peds theres no doubt about it, all these guys have tried it as their age creeps in. Years ago the little guys (126lbs and down) were true warriors and would be burnt out at age 29 to 33 with 55 fights. Now the Peds are allowing them to train harder and shorter and it is an enabler for them.

If lil Floyd thinks Pac is as done as he seems then Floyd will go for the huge pay day and he'll win.

The best fight is Juan vs Pac it's proven!!!!

I can't wait for this entire crew to go home and let these kids who are already ready to take over take over.

Hopkins, Juan, Pac, lil' Floyd, Cotto, Sergio.....go away I'm tired of the same ol' crap and hype.

It is time for new BLOOD! and yes take these dumb azz announcers with you.

...good job by the OP. Ray.

[Cleto_Reyes]

I hear you and don't disagree but I also think that what JMM does isn't a result of just PED's IF he's on them. That is decades of boxing and training with some of the best in the world.

Those combos', that accuracy is just on another level and I don't care if the PED's are making him a split second faster, that is a learned skill. Plus like Tinta said, it's not like he hasn't been doing those same exact things for 20 years now.

It's not like JMM magically learned to box, he's been this guy for 20 years. The red flag is that he's 40 and STILL doing it...lol

PED's can make you punch harder, be faster and recover faster as an older fighter. What they can't make you do is learn to counter punch like Marquez. He's taken his learned skills and natural ability, and combined it with incredible work ethic and MAYBE some chemical enhancements...lol

That's a lethal combination but he's not the only one IF he's doing it. It's world wide, and spread across a varied range of sports on the planet.

totally agree. Its like people expect him to decline already. When he proves the critics wrong they shout steroids