Duran lost biggest fights yet PFP great.

[GeneralZod]

I never said Primo Carnero would ko Muhammad Ali....you said that.

Jesus Christ, it's a scenario.

[Brandish]

It is?

Surely you don't actually think that?

Ray Leonard only has two title defenses at WW, is he an ATG WW?

A better criteria and more logical one for who is an ATG per weight class is a ranking system I.e Top 10, Top 15, Top 20 etc.

Both DeJesus and Buchanan are amongst most Top 20 lists and that's ATG criteria for most in that division. Considering it's depth.

I don't rank Leonard top ten all time due the said fact mentioned he only had 7 title defenses for his whole career I weigh guys heavily who defend a title. Duran gets a pass for his lightweight resume which is not all that. His welterweight resume is poor and his 154 and 160 reigns were just sideshows.

Duran all time when I rank him at each weight class he participated in stacks up this way.

Duran 135 - B no top ten ATG to compare skill with at the weight.
Duran 147 - C one defeat if Leonard does not equate to dominance. Duran lost key battles at this his second weight class. Losing to Benitez and Leonard in the rematch Duran never successfully defended his title at 147.
Duran 154 - D won the WBA belt from Davy Moore koed in his next fight against tommy hearns, never defended the belt he won!
Duran 160 - D won the belt from Iran Barkley never defended the title he won in his fourth weight class.

So that's three weight classes he competed in that he never defended a title he won. I rank him top 30-50 depending on the mood I'm in. Lol

[Big_L]

This is really all you need to know about Duran: an old, small Duran fought a Prime Hagler, who knocked out every challenger for his title and Duran took him 15 and was up on the cards after 12. If he would have negotiated a 12 round fight like Leonard did, he would have beaten him. The same Hagler who ran straight through Hearns, without showing him the least bit of respect, was criticized for showing Duran too much. That was the aura that Duran had.

Duran was fighter of the decade in the 70's for what he did at 135. Jumping 2 weight classes and beating Leonard cemented his legacy. Beating Moore for the 154 title and Barkley for the 160 title enhanced it even more.

[IronDanHamza]

I don't rank Leonard top ten all time due the said fact mentioned he only had 7 title defenses for his whole career I weigh guys heavily who defend a title. Duran gets a pass for his lightweight resume which is not all that. His welterweight resume is poor and his 154 and 160 reigns were just sideshows.

Duran all time when I rank him at each weight class he participated in stacks up this way.

Duran 135 - B no top ten ATG to compare skill with at the weight.
Duran 147 - C one defeat if Leonard does not equate to dominance. Duran lost key battles at this his second weight class. Losing to Benitez and Leonard in the rematch Duran never successfully defended his title at 147.
Duran 154 - D won the WBA belt from Davy Moore koed in his next fight against tommy hearns, never defended the belt he won!
Duran 160 - D won the belt from Iran Barkley never defended the title he won in his fourth weight class.

So that's three weight classes he competed in that he never defended a title he won. I rank him top 30-50 depending on the mood I'm in. Lol

Why base highly off title defenses? I think that's a really illogical way of ranking a fighter.

A fighter can have a lot of title defenses and fight no one of note.

Whilst a guy like Leonard can have two title defenses yet beat Duran, Hearns and Benitez in that weight class?

Which one's better? The guy with 20 title defenses but no one of note or the guy with 2 title defenses but beat 3 ATG's? I think the answer is obvious.

I'm guessing you rank Calzaghe, Ottke, Sturm, Abraham, Hill etc very highly considering they have a long long list of title defenses? Despite the fact they're resumes are actually not very good at all?

Title defenses are meaningless.

Welterweight isn't his second weight class, Duran started his career at 118.

[Ray Corso]

Duran was the ATG at Lightweight, he beat all the contenders and how he beat them and why he beat is why he is considered a top ten all time lightweight. Its not always a fighters record that "rates" him its how he fought. Methods that were used and what techniques were imployed to gain success. Was he strong at offense and defense, did he bring power & speed to the ring. Was the amount of bouts he engaged in turned into knowledge, could he adapt.
Most fighters are rated at their best time which like many other athletes is usually during a 10 year period. The fact that Duran gave away so much size (5'7") when moving up from 135lbs is a testimate to his skills and abilities. Duran was a fighter who refused to walk away at his best he wanted the challeges and pro boxing is how he earned his living, its not easy to stop being a fighter.
From 135 to 147 he fought very good and accomplished pros, some fought him very well too;
In 1970 Duran was tested against Ernie Marcel and did very well in his first real test. He also fought Kobayshi, Buchanan, DeJesus (2) loosing the first! Ed Viruet, Saul Mamby (140) to Palimino to Leonard!

I evaluate fighter by watching their techniques and methods, there are times when a lesser talent can make a great fighter look bad and even win over him that doesn't take away from his greatness. If you fight long enough and against all comers **** happens!
To me Duran is a top ten Lightweight who could compete in any era.
To me thats the highest compliment I can pay!
Duran fighting at 160 means nothing to me, it doesn't have a thing to do with his prime years, its just Duran "picking up the pennies" and in his case "millions"! Ray.

[toooooool]

Duran was the ATG at Lightweight, he beat all the contenders and how he beat them and why he beat is why he is considered a top ten all time lightweight. Its not always a fighters record that "rates" him its how he fought. Methods that were used and what techniques were imployed to gain success. Was he strong at offense and defense, did he bring power & speed to the ring. Was the amount of bouts he engaged in turned into knowledge, could he adapt.
Most fighters are rated at their best time which like many other athletes is usually during a 10 year period. The fact that Duran gave away so much size (5'7") when moving up from 135lbs is a testimate to his skills and abilities. Duran was a fighter who refused to walk away at his best he wanted the challeges and pro boxing is how he earned his living, its not easy to stop being a fighter.
From 135 to 147 he fought very good and accomplished pros, some fought him very well too;
In 1970 Duran was tested against Ernie Marcel and did very well in his first real test. He also fought Kobayshi, Buchanan, DeJesus (2) loosing the first! Ed Viruet, Saul Mamby (140) to Palimino to Leonard!

I evaluate fighter by watching their techniques and methods, there are times when a lesser talent can make a great fighter look bad and even win over him that doesn't take away from his greatness. If you fight long enough and against all comers **** happens!
To me Duran is a top ten Lightweight who could compete in any era.
To me thats the highest compliment I can pay!
Duran fighting at 160 means nothing to me, it doesn't have a thing to do with his prime years, its just Duran "picking up the pennies" and in his case "millions"! Ray.

Duran is one of my favorites,I love Duran.I just don't understand how every
fighter in the world is judged on who they 'beat' except for Duran.

[just the facts]

duran was the zab judah of his era

most ignorant post I've seen here, and that says a lot

[Brandish]

Why base highly off title defenses? I think that's a really illogical way of ranking a fighter.

A fighter can have a lot of title defenses and fight no one of note.

Whilst a guy like Leonard can have two title defenses yet beat Duran, Hearns and Benitez in that weight class?

Which one's better? The guy with 20 title defenses but no one of note or the guy with 2 title defenses but beat 3 ATG's? I think the answer is obvious.

I'm guessing you rank Calzaghe, Ottke, Sturm, Abraham, Hill etc very highly considering they have a long long list of title defenses? Despite the fact they're resumes are actually not very good at all?

Title defenses are meaningless.

Welterweight isn't his second weight class, Duran started his career at 118.

I feel you have to have both to be considered top ten all time, you can't win a title dint defend it then ask me to rank you all time against someone like pernell Whitaker who had 8 title defenses in his third weight class against string opposition.

Duran never did much outside of 135 so I rank him top30-50

I don't rank Calzaghe top 200

[FilMor]

This is really all you need to know about Duran: an old, small Duran fought a Prime Hagler, who knocked out every challenger for his title and Duran took him 15 and was up on the cards after 12. If he would have negotiated a 12 round fight like Leonard did, he would have beaten him. The same Hagler who ran straight through Hearns, without showing him the least bit of respect, was criticized for showing Duran too much. That was the aura that Duran had.

Duran was fighter of the decade in the 70's for what he did at 135. Jumping 2 weight classes and beating Leonard cemented his legacy. Beating Moore for the 154 title and Barkley for the 160 title enhanced it even more.

I love Duran but I don't think he was up after 12 rounds. I just re watched that fight a few days ago.. it was close, very very close but Hagler was winning for sure.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

DeJesus and Buchanan are probably ATG Lightweight's.

Not ATG's in general but ATG Lightweights most likely.

Duran has a great resume.

Probably?...ha ha ....Sugar...answer my question.

Sorry tool, wasn't on to respond and missed it, but exactly what irondan says... Plus you can say that he pretty much beat every guy that was highly ranked over the 70s,,, the guy has tremendous depth at lightweight, then he moved up and beat srl,,,, His resume is outstanding,, yes he lost a lot later in his career but so does every fighter that hangs around for too long