Manny Pacquiao made JMM who hes is

[pistol whip]

Many great fighters had a foil who was nowhere near as accomplished, yet gave them all kinds of trouble repeatedly. Ali had Norton and Frazier, MAB had Jones, RJJ had Tarver. Nobody takes away these guys' accomplishments in hanging with or beating the superior fighter, just putting it into context. JMM doesn't have standout wins except vs Pac, and regularly struggled against good but not elite comp who wouldn't even figure on Pac's resume. He's still HOF even without Pac on his resume, but not 1st ballot IMO, and nowhere near ATG.

Norton, jones, and tarver werent exactly fighting guys that were PFP #1 and completely prime. Come on thats just dumb and putting Joe Frasier in that list? Yeah I can't take your opinion seriously if you think of Joe as a guy that was made by Ali and everything else in his career was unimportant.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

jmm had some quality wins vs diaz, casamoyer, salido,, MAB

the thing that screws jmm is that prince naseem dodged him for years and then morales fight never happened,, had he gotten those fights i think his career would be much better and not have needed pac to get to superstardom

[pistol whip]

jmm had some quality wins vs diaz, casamoyer, salido,, MAB

the thing that screws jmm is that prince naseem dodged him for years and then morales fight never happened,, had he gotten those fights i think his career would be much better and not have needed pac to get to superstardom

This is exactly right!! The thread starter forgets this fact that for all of his 20's nobody wanted any part of JMM.

[HeroBando]

Norton, jones, and tarver werent exactly fighting guys that were PFP #1 and completely prime. Come on thats just dumb and putting Joe Frasier in that list? Yeah I can't take your opinion seriously if you think of Joe as a guy that was made by Ali and everything else in his career was unimportant.

I never said JMM did nothing beyond Pac, just that it pales greatly next to this one matchup for him. All those fighters were legit, but greatly elevated by favorable matchups against a much greater guy.

You ready to submit his 3 best wins after Pac?

[AztecWanker]

This is exactly right!! The thread starter forgets this fact that for all of his 20's nobody wanted any part of JMM.

He ducked Morales in 05-06, wanted 100% split when he was a nobody LOL. Ducked Hamed, yes he ducked Hamed. He also openly didn't want to fight Rios or Khan but apparently Likar Ramos and Fedchenko make you a legend. You're hero is a joke.

I'll provide links when I get home as I have them saved for threads like these.

[Spray_resistant]

Maybe but it does take great fighters to make other great fighters, how else do you know if they are any good if these guys just fight a bunch of club fighters?

Lets give some credit to JMM here its his hard work, skill, and talent that made him what he is to the sport otherwise he would have just been easily blown out by Pac in fight 1 and no one would care about him or regard him so highly.

[HeroBando]

jmm had some quality wins vs diaz, casamoyer, salido,, MAB

the thing that screws jmm is that prince naseem dodged him for years and then morales fight never happened,, had he gotten those fights i think his career would be much better and not have needed pac to get to superstardom

Quality wins, but again none of those is a clear top 10 win for Pac. The only one you could argue is MAB, but very much arguable. That means Pac has about 10 wins better than JMM's second best win. That's a really wide disparity

[AztecWanker]

Maybe but it does take great fighters to make other great fighters, how else do you know if they are any good if these guys just fight a bunch of club fighters?

Lets give some credit to JMM here its his hard work, skill, and talent that made him what he is to the sport otherwise he would have just been easily blown out by Pac in fight 1 and no one would care about him or regard him so highly.

No one is saying he's not a great fighter cuz he clearly is. It's his average ass resume that people are shitting on. And rightfully so.

[Spray_resistant]

No one is saying he's not a great fighter cuz he clearly is. It's his average ass resume that people are shitting on. And rightfully so.

Its much better than average, he has some quality wins under his belt sure his resume isn't as good as Pac's but so what he won the war and is the only one of the two who actually has a win in their 4 fight series that can't be disputed.

[pistol whip]

He ducked Morales in 05-06, wanted 100% split when he was a nobody LOL. Ducked Hamed, yes he ducked Hamed. He also openly didn't want to fight Rios or Khan but apparently Likar Ramos and Fedchenko make you a legend. You're hero is a joke.

I'll provide links when I get home as I have them saved for threads like these.

Why wait when i have manny steward himself in an interview saying he didn't want the fight against marquez. Im sure whatever ****** link you have for morales is bullsheeet anyways.


STEWARD:
" I am just totally amazed and shocked when you look at the fact that it’s the little small guys who usually start declining because speed, coordination, and timing is so important for smaller division fighters. For him to be fighting on this level, maybe better than ever, and I remember when was involved with training Prince Naseem Hamed about ten years ago, he was the one fighter that I told Naz that I didn’t want to fight. I mean he was that good already and he was nowhere like he is now. So he has been fighting at top form a long time and in this last fight I was just totally amazed how he was able to get out of trouble, blocking, picking punches off, and counter-punching with effective punches from a young aggressive guy who was crowding him. As soon as he got a little daylight he put it all together. This was a tremendous performance. I would say I have to rate him as one of the all around fundamentally good boxers in the history of the sport, maybe up there with the best that can do everything, and he has tremendous punching power. I know we’ve had his teammate Ricardo Lopez was considered a great, but nobody was in kind of trenches that he’s been in and still had so much punching power in addition to ring intelligence".

http://otrboxingradio.com/?p=1230 here is the link smart guy.