Do Wlad's 3 defeats hamper his ATG status?

[LacedUp]

Well yes since you Klitschko haters always want to keep it about 'facts'. You have no factual evidence for past contenders being stronger than today's.

There's clear factual evidence that Vitali hasn't got an ATG resume. He only has 6 top 10 wins in his career.

The only people that negate this obvious fact are the Klitschko fanboys, meaning you and your 5 alts.

[Weltschmerz]

Ali, Frazier, Louis, Lewis, Holmes, Foreman, Johnson, Dempsey, Liston, Tyson, Charles, Marciano, Holyfield. After these guys I won't argue too much against putting Wlad up there next.

Then we can start talking about Walcott, Langford, Sullivan, Fitzsimmons etc. to a lot of people these guys would be higher. And I can see both sides of the argument.

But Wlad is not top 10, and certainly not top 5 as some people criminally claim he could be.

ha ha.... just ha ha....

[crold1]

ha ha.... just ha ha....

The only case I can see for guys like Langford, Charles, and Marciano is a 'relative to era' case. None of them would beat Wlad. There are very few great heavies pre-Liston who would.

At Heavyweight, you have to take size into account sometimes. Where a guy has success against it in older eras (like Louis who beat guys comparable to many so-called Super Heavys today), you have some evidence to point to for a case. Marciano never beat a world class contender with the sort of size and length advantages Wlad brings.

Langford actually had some too but we don't know what it looked like exactly and he'd give up a foot, and 50-60 lbs.

[Weltschmerz]

There's clear factual evidence that Vitali hasn't got an ATG resume. He only has 6 top 10 wins in his career.

The only people that negate this obvious fact are the Klitschko fanboys, meaning you and your 5 alts.

Vitali?!? This is a thread about Wladimir

You are all over the place coming back from your ban, buddy.

Take it easy

[LacedUp]

ha ha.... just ha ha....

It's ha ha because you don't know who they are?

The only case I can see for guys like Langford, Charles, and Marciano is a 'relative to era' case. None of them would beat Wlad. There are very few great heavies pre-Liston who would.

Cliff, I don't base greatness on who would beat who in a fantasy match-up. I base it on who beat who, and I could make a case for guys like Charles, Marciano, Walcott etc for having better wins and fighting better opponents than Wlad. But I also said they were in and around the same places, I think most people would agree.

Do you think Wlad is greater than any of the 13 I mentioned in the top of my post?

[LacedUp]

Vitali?!? This is a thread about Wladimir

You are all over the place coming back from your ban, buddy.

Take it easy

When you say 'we' are all about facts, you are clearly referring to the tiresome Vitali threads. Don't try to deny that.

Don't refer to my ban, you have been banned ten times. This was my first.

[Simurgh]

I can't see Langford, Charles, Frazier, Holyfield above Wlad.

Furthermore I wouldn't put Dempsey or Holmes above either.

[LacedUp]

I can't see Langford, Charles, Frazier, Holyfield above Wlad.

Furthermore I wouldn't put Dempsey or Holmes above either.

Frazier, Holmes, Holyfield and Dempsey are absolutely higher than Wlad!

What exactly would make Wlad feature higher than Holmes on any list? Holmes has the better wins, fought in 4 different decades, had a longer reign of the genuine title and had more exciting fights.

Wlad is absolutely below Holmes on all accounts.

[crold1]

It's ha ha because you don't know who they are?



Cliff, I don't base greatness on who would beat who in a fantasy match-up. I base it on who beat who, and I could make a case for guys like Charles, Marciano, Walcott etc for having better wins and fighting better opponents than Wlad. But I also said they were in and around the same places, I think most people would agree.

Do you think Wlad is greater than any of the 13 I mentioned in the top of my post?

I def would have him ahead of Charles. Not sure on Marciano as far as a ratings thing yet but I think he beats Rock. Rock might give a tougher fight to some others guys though like Holy or Ali or Louis or Holmes who I think would beat Wlad up.

Wlad being a bad match doesn't make every great a bad match. Some guys handled size better.

[Poet682006]

I used to be supportive of Wlad and was, at one point, a big fan of his. In light of his recent grab-hold-clinch b1tcha$$ performance, I'm hoping his suffers another defeat (KO preferably) that blemishes his accomplishments and keeps his name out of the ATG discussion.

Dayum! You could knock me over with a feather right now :allhail9: