My Top 20 All Time

[IronDanHamza]

It's not ridden with old fighters unless you call guys who fought in the 30s as old lol

I can understand your argument of possibly not having Hopkins but chavez? Are you serious? lol

You look at all of these fighters listed, you actually believe that Chavez belongs with those? You genuinely believe Chavez has a Top 20 calibur resume?

What year is this? Did I wake up in the 1980's?

[IronDanHamza]

Reasons?

Also, to guys like RustyDan who don't have Ali in their top 10 and to guys like K-Dogg who don't even have him top 20 but have guys like Charles and Moore...why is he not there?

Seriously, the man has one of the best resumes ever, easily a top 5 resume irregardless of weight class, he was the number one heavyweight in the golden age of the division. I can only say that about Robinson being the number one in what was the greatest mw generation ever. How anyone can justify Ali not being at the very least a top 10 is beyond me.

I'm all ears to your reasons.

"RustyDan" Was that suppose to be humorous? Aren't you the person who told me to "play with people my own age" now you're throwing around insults a 10 year old would use.

Ezzard Charles clearly has a better resume than Ali. Ali is a great fighter who would most likely be in my Top 15 but there's a solid few with better resumes than him.

[JAB5239]

There's been a lot of discussion on who should be a top 20 ATG. Should Hopkins be there? Should he not? Most of you know my opinion on that but it got me thinking, it's about time I made a top 20 of my own. I've never done this before and it may be subject to change but here goes:

1. "Sugar" Ray Robinson
Just can't argue with how great SRR really was, welterweight champion, multiple time mw champion and almost the lhw champion of the world. Between 1940 and 1950, Ray had everything a fighter needs, immense power, exceptional speed, quick feet and cat like reflexes. he was a league above almost everyone he faced and in that decade, he faced just about everyone who mattered. The fact that he beat top ranked contenders and HOF champions post-prime just goes to show you how good he really was.

2. Muhammad "The Louisville Lip" Ali
The only fighter who comes close to SRR in terms of all round skill, at his best, from 1964-67 Ali was as unbeatable as any fighter has ever been. The heavyweight homage to Robinson Ali had it all, a great jab, a terrific right hand, reflexes never before seen in a heavyweight and instinctive, perfectly tuned footwork. Ali of the 70s was not quite as good but he added toughness, grit and a never say die attitude to his work, along with the scalps of Foreman, Frazier, Norton, Shavers and co, the greatest resume in the division's history.

3. Willie "Will O' the Wisp" Pep
The single greatest defensive wizard in the sport, he'd make the likes of Whitaker and Mayweather look ordinary. Fleet footed and always exceptionally well conditioned, he danced rings around the featherweight division better than anyone else before or since. After his plane crash, he wasn't quite the same fighter, he was a tad slower, a little less of a dancer but just like Ali, he had to learn to go to war and he did, many, many times.

4. Henry "Homicide Hank" Armstrong
Armstrong was whirring machine of destruction, a man who never seemed to stop punching, no matter if he was fighting featherweights or middleweights. He had a great engine, exceptional power and the ability to adjust to his opponents. At his very best he almost held half the world titles on offer in the sport, a feat that would now seem impossible. He may not have been defensively savvy as Pep or as pretty to watch as Ali but he was equally as effective.

5. Benny Leonard "****** Wizard" Leonard
The greatest lightweight ever? Probably. In his prime...which seemed to go on forever, Leonard seemed to be unbeatable, he has it all, sped of foot and hand as well as the ability to fight off the front and back foot. He retired as an undefeated champion but sadly, like most fighters, he couldn't stay away and returned. If you catch footage of that version of Benny, it's a sad sight, not in the same supreme condition and never again as quick as he had been in his best years. One of the top 5 best fighters ever.

6. Joe "Brown Bomber" Louis
The second greatest heavyweight ever in my opinion, the longest reigning and one of the toughest too. Louis was a highly skilled operative in the ring, he didn't have the flair of an Ali or a Tyson, he was a lot more mechanical in the ring but he made up for it with undoubted ring smarts and great power. It's true that a lot of Louis' opposition in his long run were "bums" but he also fought his fair share of greats and HOFers, not all of them were heavyweights though, stopping him getting into my top 5.

7. Roberto "Manos de Piedra" Duran
Easily one of my favourite fighters ever to watch, the man was a beast, snarling, growling and sometimes smiling like a psychopath, he ripped a whole in the lightweight division for almost a decade but some of his most memorable bouts came as high as 160lbs, just going to show you how good he really was. Duran was an offensive master but at his best he had underrated defense, the ability to duck and slip punches. His quit job against Leonard will always leave a bitter taste in my mouth, stopping him from being any higher in my list.

8. Ezzard "Cincinnati Cobra" Charles
Famed as a heavyweight champion, Charles is amongst the best ever in three different divisions, a real rarity in the sport. He should have been light-heavyweight champion but was never given the chance, despite being no. 1 contender and holding victories over such men as Archie Moore and Sam Baroudi. But he finally got the recognition he wanted with his heavyweight title reign, beating the likes of Walcott and Louis and proving against Marciano, that even this late in his career, he was one of the best.

9. Julio Cesar Chavez
Like Charles and Armstrong before him, Chavez can be accredited as being a great fighter, one of the absolute elite in a number of different divisions. When talking about great lightweights and great light-welterweights, it is impossible to mention the great JCC. The greatest Mexican fighter ever and a warrior with underrated boxing skills. He lacked the panache of contemporaries such as Whitaker, Leonard and Taylor but he made up for it with an unquestionable heart, a great chin and power. Chavez knew how to wear down an opponent and when the time was right, he could seriously damage them. A definite top 10.

10. "Sugar" Ray Leonard
SRL in just 40 fights has done more than what most fighters can dream of in over a 100 professional bouts. Leonard at his best was a highly skilled fighter who could tough it out with the best of them, as he proved against Duran, Hearns, Lolande and others. Leonard at his peak was a complete fighter with extremely high ring IQ, proven when well past his best, he traveled up to 160 and claimed the undisputed MW title from Hagler, one of the greatest victories in the 20th century.

11. Sam "Boston Tar Baby" Langford
12. Archie "The Old Mongoose" Moore
13. Mickey "Toy Bulldog" Walker
14. "Marvelous" Marvin Hagler
15. Harry "Pittsburgh Windmill" Greb
16. "Big" George Foreman
17. Jimmy "Mighty Atom" Wilde
18. "The Fighting Marine" Gene Tunney
19. "The Executioner" Bernard Hopkins
20. Joe "The Old Master" Gans

I respect anyone willing to put themselves out there with a list, but its almost criminal not having Langford and Greb in the top 5, let alone top 10.

[IronDanHamza]

I respect anyone willing to put themselves out there with a list, but its almost criminal not having Langford and Greb in the top 5, let alone top 10.

Just looking at that Top 10 list, mine is apparently the worst list he's ever seen but we have 6 fighters matching

[JAB5239]

A quick top 10 with little thought. My top 5 have not changed in years.

1. Sam Langford
2. Harry Greb
3. Sugar Ray Robinson
4. Henry Armstrong
5. Ezzard Charles
6. Benny Leonard
7. Willie Pep
8. Bob Fitzsimmons
9. Joe Gans
10. Mickey Walker

[JAB5239]

Wow that's a terrible list, no offence but Greb and Moore above Ali? Langford...Like seriously, you don't even have Ali top 10? I think you're trying too hard, that's quite honestly one of the worst lists I have ever seen.

Actually all 3 are easily better than Ali p4p skillwise and by quite some distance resume wise. Langford beat ATG'S from lightweight to heavyweight. Greb has arguably the greatest resume ever including being the only man to beat Tunney, and Moore resume is amongst the best ever p4p.

[JAB5239]

Just looking at that Top 10 list, mine is apparently the worst list he's ever seen but we have 6 fighters matching

Seems you and I are almost in total agreement besides order and the absence of Walker from your list and Moore from mine. Archie would probably be my next pick. If I researched it again he may even be in the top 10. Been awhile since I did a top 10 p4p list.

[SBleeder]

I wouldn't argue if someone had Ali in the Top 10 but he's not in mine. Everyone I've ranked in the Top 10 has a better resume IMO.

I think Ali has a slightly better resume than Willie Pep.

[IronDanHamza]

Seems you and I are almost in total agreement besides order and the absence of Walker from your list and Moore from mine. Archie would probably be my next pick. If I researched it again he may even be in the top 10. Been awhile since I did a top 10 p4p list.

I also have Duran and not Gans.

But for the most part yes, great minds think alike, or so they say

[IronDanHamza]

I think Ali has a slightly better resume than Willie Pep.

I think that's fair.

Albeit, Pep's win over Saddler is the best win on either resume IMO but I think Pep's resume is a little overrated.

I often consider swapping him someone. Ali could easily be that someone although he likely wouldn't be.