Can you be considered an ATG when these are your 10 best wins?

[JAB5239]

Like Whitaker he is an ATG by default.....I mean the dominance and pure talent is there so he is automatically and ATG, just like another poster used that same argument for Whitaker being an ATG in a recent thread.

Unlike Vits, Whitaker moved up and beat truly talented, ranked fighters and on at least two occasions prime ATG's. There is no default, you either are or you're not. Vittles is not.

In my opinion

[beez721]

01 - Sam Langford
02 - Harry Greb
03 - Sugar Ray Robinson
04 - Henry Armstrong
05 - Ezzard Charles
06 - Bob Fitzsimmons
07 - Muhammad Ali
08 - Joe Gans
09 - Joe Louis
10 - Roberto Duran.
11 - Benny Leonard
12 - Mickey Walker
13 - Willie Pep
14 - Barney Ross
15 - Archie Moore
16 - Ray Leonard
17 - George Dixon
18 - Terry McGovern
19 - Packey McFarland
20 - Pernell Whitaker
21 - Tony Canzoneri
22 - Jimmy McLarnin
23 - Sandy Saddler
24 - Stanley Ketchel
25 - Charley Burley
26 - Holman Williams
27 - Billy Conn
28 - Gene Tunney
29 - Roy Jones
30 - Joe Walcott
31 - Carlos Monzon
32 - Jimmy Wilde
33 - Eder Jofre
34 - Marvin Hagler
35 - Julio Cesar Chavez
36 - Tommy Gibbons
37 - Kid Gavilan
38 - Jack Britton
39 - Emile Griffith
40 - Jose Napoles
41 - Alexis Arguello
42 - Michael Spinks
43 - Tommy Loughran
44 - Thomas Hearns
45 - Jimmy Bivins
46 - Ike Williams
47 - Floyd Mayweather
48 - Manny Pacquiao
49 - Tommy Ryan
50 - Jack Dillon
51 - Bernard Hopkins
52 - Carlos Ortiz
53 - Fighting Harada
54 - Ruben Olivares
55 – Evander Holyfield
56 - Young Corbett III
57 - Mike Gibbons
58 – Ted Kid Lewis
59 - Freddie Welsh
60 - Freddie Steele
61 - Lou Ambers
62 - Salvador Sanchez
63 - Wilfredo Gomez
64 - Vicente Saldivar
65 - Rocky Marciano
66 - Abe Attell
67 - Manuel Ortiz
68 - Harold Johnson
69 - **** Tiger
70 - Luis Manuel Rodriguez
71 - Carmen Basilio
72 - Carlos Zarate
73 - Miguel Canto
74 - Oscar De La Hoya
75 - Azumah Nelson
76 - Mike McCallum
77 - Lary Holmes
78 - Bob Foster
79 - Teddy Yarosz
80 - Jim Driscoll
81 - Panama Al Brown
82 - Pascual Perez
83 - Lloyd Marshall
84 – Jake LaMotta
85 - Juan Manuel Marquez
86 – Wilfred Benitez
87 – Nonpareil Jack Dempsey
88 – Erik Morales
89 – Marco Antonio Barrera
90 - Young Griffo
91 - Fritzie Zivic
92 - Joe Frazier
93 - Pete Herman
94 - Lennox Lewis
95 - Jack "Kid" Berg
96 - Philadelphia Jack O'Brien
97 - James Toney
98 - Nicolino Locche
99 - Jung Koo Chang
100-George Foreman


Tier I
Kid McCoy, Beau Jack, Tiger Flowers, Jeff Smith, Sammy Mandell, Kid Chocolate, Johnny Dundee, Sammy Agnott, Billy Graham.

Tier II
Bob Montgomery, Jeff Fenech, Ad Wolgast, Midget Wolgast, Benny Lynch, Billy Petrolle, Pancho Villa, Eddie Booker, Young Stribling.

Tier III
Aaron Pryor, Joe Calzaghe, Mike Tyson, Antonio Cervantes, Joe Brown, Duilio Loi, Marcel Cerdan, Fidel LaBarbara, Sammy Fuller, Nino Benvenuti, Ricardo Lopez, Ernesto Marcel, Eusebio Pedroza,

The rest:
Bud Taylor, Frankie Genaro, Flash Elorde, Battling Nelson, Freddie Miller, Les Darcy, Joe Lynch, Willie Joyce.
Pongsaklek Wonjongkam, Jimmy Barry, Gilberto Roman, Ismael Laguna, Maxie Rosenbloom,Sonny Liston, Jack Johnson, Esteban DeJesus, Matthew Saad Muhammad, Baby Arzimendi,
Sixto Escobar, Brian Mitchell, Felix Trinidad, Cocoa Kid, Sugar Shane Mosle, Battling Battalino, i, Fred Apostoli, Lew Jenkins, Jack Delaney, Jim Jeffries, Harry Wills, Jack Dempsey, Wladimir Klitschko.

More:

Sixto Escobar
Brian Mitchell
Felix Trinidad
Cocoa Kid
Jersey Joe Walcott
Esteban DeJesus
Gene Fullmer
Matthew Saad Muhammad
Battling Battalino
Baby Arzimendi
Wladmir Klitschko
Fred Apostoli
Lew Jenkins
Jeff Clark
Ken Buchanan
Jack Delaney
Owen Moran
Victor Galindez
Ismael Laguna
Floyd Patterson
Tippy Larkin
Jack McAuliffe
Georges Carpentier
Yuri Arbachakov
Kostya Tszyu
Sumbu Kalambay
Nigel Benn
Chris Eubank
Joey Giardello

my bad. thought u meant at heavyweight

[Desert Warrior]

Unlike Vits, Whitaker moved up and beat truly talented, ranked fighters and on at least two occasions prime ATG's. There is no default, you either are or you're not. Vittles is not.

In my opinion

WTF? Where do you want him to move up to??lol....Whitaker lost his big fights while Vitali continues to dominate at his age

[JAB5239]

WTF? Where do you want him to move up to??lol....Whitaker lost his big fights while Vitali continues to dominate at his age

I don't want him to move up anywhere. But there are far more smaller fighters on p4p list than heavyweights BECAUSE they can move up. Whitaker beat Azumah Nelson and schooled Chavez before being robbed. You could combine Vits top 10 wins and it wouldn't be the equal of these two.

[GRboxing]

WTF? Where do you want him to move up to??lol....Whitaker lost his big fights while Vitali continues to dominate at his age

Whitaker dominated his big fights when he was prime. What are you even talking about

[Desert Warrior]

I don't want him to move up anywhere. But there are far more smaller fighters on p4p list than heavyweights BECAUSE they can move up. Whitaker beat Azumah Nelson and schooled Chavez before being robbed. You could combine Vits top 10 wins and it wouldn't be the equal of these two.

The Chavez fight was a draw.....unless you're ready to concede that Castillo beat Mayweather and Quintero and PDL beat Broner? The Nelson win was good but other than that he doesn't hold any wins over ATGs....he is rated high in ATG rankings base on dominance an pure talent just like Vitali.

[StarshipTrooper]

The Chavez fight was a draw.....unless you're ready to concede that Castillo beat Mayweather and Quintero and PDL beat Broner? The Nelson win was good but other than that he doesn't hold any wins over ATGs....he is rated high in ATG rankings base on dominance an pure talent just like Vitali.

So you're saying Whitaker has a win over an ATG in Nelson? Well, that's one more win over an ATG than Vitali has.

Next.....

[GRboxing]

my bad. thought u meant at heavyweight

Its OK if you dnt kno its history

[JAB5239]

The Chavez fight was a draw.....unless you're ready to concede that Castillo beat Mayweather and Quintero and PDL beat Broner? The Nelson win was good but other than that he doesn't hold any wins over ATGs....he is rated high in ATG rankings base on dominance an pure talent just like Vitali.

Gee, its funny you should mention it but I did think Castillo deserved the win in the first Floyd fight. Difference is Pea was MUCH more dominant over Chavez than Castillo over Mayweather. So again....What all time great has Vits ever dominated? Ok, ok, I know that's a tough one. Lets try an easier one. What fighters did Vittles beat to go on and accomplish anything significant? I know, I know, you're saying to yourself these questions just aren't fair. This is what I'll do to make it super easy on you and the rest of the Klit brigade. What are Vitaly's two greatest wins?

You see, you still need good names on a resume no matter what. You just can't judge a fighter on talent, especially when you're judging that talent against guys with little of it themselves. And THAT is why resume is so important. Bottom line is hardly anyone on Vits resume has done anything noteworthy at heavyweight to set him apart with true greats.

[r.burgundy]

the main problem is people need to stop pretending that the hw division has been chock full of great fighters.the division has rarely had more than 2 great fighters in their peak at any 1 time.nuthuggers love to romanticize the 70's and talk about norton,frazier,quarry.these guys were avg talents and fighters who put on some memorable fights.1 great fight doesnt make you a great fighter.if you make a top 100lb for lb their would likely be less than 10 true hw's on it.the talent in that division has always been ****,it just always had a mystique that lower weights dont have because they are much bigger men and they hit the hardest