Can you be considered an ATG when these are your 10 best wins?

[LacedUp]

Poet,

Marciano vs. Klitschko

Who wins?

Holyfield vs. Klitschko

Who wins

Frazier vs. Klitschko

Who wins

Let's see if there's even a slightly objective bone in your body.

Let's see. Instead of playing the fantasy fight game, let's see who they beat shall we?

Marciano's best three wins: Old louis, Charles and Walcott.

Holyfield's best wins: Bowe, Tyson, Foreman/Moorer

Frazier's best wins: Quarry, Ellis, Prime Ali

Vitali's best wins: Sanders, Peter, Hide?

Wlad's best wins: Byrd, Haye, Ibragimov.

Can you see the difference?

[hitman smax]

Poet:

When did Wlad change his name to Floyd Mayweather?

Mayweather isn't dominant. You can't claim dominance while avoiding the best fights available.

Again, Klitschko has become the most dominant force in boxing. Feel free to make another attempt to dispute that, but don't embarrass yourself by involving Mayweather again.

[hitman smax]

Let's see. Instead of playing the fantasy fight game, let's see who they beat shall we?

Marciano's best three wins: Old louis, Charles and Walcott.

Holyfield's best wins: Bowe, Tyson, Foreman/Moorer

Frazier's best wins: Quarry, Ellis, Prime Ali

Vitali's best wins: Sanders, Peter, Hide?

Wlad's best wins: Byrd, Haye, Ibragimov.

Can you see the difference?

Yeah, dominance has skewed your perception.

I'll prove it. Name Tyson's 3 biggest wins.

[LacedUp]

Yeah, dominance has skewed your perception.

I'll prove it. Name Tyson's 3 biggest wins.

Spinks (world champ in 2 weight classes), undefeated, Bruno (two times world champ), Berbick (world champ)/Larry holmes

Name Sanders or Peter's three biggest wins.

[BattlingNelson]

So I ask this question in post 6:

Define ATG.

A reasonable question that needs answering before you seriously can try to determine whether Vitali is an ATG or not.

Oddly enough the TS, who is a mod of boxingscene's historysection BTW, ignores the question and spends the next several days laughing and ridiculing the posters who voted Vitali was an ATG. Finally 170 posts later we get the definition that is paramount:

I think 20 should be the limit. Historically the top 10 are the elite. I think doubling that for history is fair.

In other words you have to be considered top 20 in your division all-time to be considered an ATG.

Now Jab and his henchmen has spent about 100+ posts ridiculing those saying Vitali was an ATG, so one would think that Jab, being a scholar of the sports history, has Vitali ranked far away from all-time greatness. I mean how else can you justify all that bullying and ridiculing?

Let's see the answer:

This is how the IBRO does it and than there is a list in no order of those "just missing the cut". I think Vits is one of those who just misses the cut. His resume sucks, but even so his dominance for such a long period is impressive. He's a tough guy, no one disputes this, but there is no justification for ranking him above guys who beat more accomplished fighters....especially when era's were deeper and with far less titles to cherry pick contenders from.

So Vitali JUST misses the cut! Ahahahahaha!

What a joke you are Jab. How can you justify this ridicule towards posters who just might happen to rank Vitali no. 20 all-time instead instead of JUST missing the cut as you do? We are talking about highly subjective all-time rankings where the difference might be as low as one single place! Talk about having an agenda!


Wauw!

[Khalid X]

Maybe because their combined best wins are David haye and Corrie Sanders......

What I don't get is people use the absolute best HW in the history of the sport to compare Wlad and Vitali's record.

Of course their resume looks weak compared to guys like Ali, Louis etc. I get it, they aren't on their level. However, that doesn't mean they aren't great fighters themselves.

I feel both are easily in the top 15-20 range of HW (all-time), in fact I have a hard time naming that many I would rank over them. So that's good enough for me and it's sad that people just can't give them credit.

Look....I absolutely hate Marco Antonio Barrera, but I can put emotion and hate aside and judge him accordingly (I feel he is one of the greatest FW off all-time) and I wish others could put their hate aside and give the Klitschko's credit.

[LacedUp]

What I don't get is people use the absolute best HW in the history of the sport to compare Wlad and Vitali's record.

Of course their resume looks weak compared to guys like Ali, Louis etc. I get it, they aren't on their level. However, that doesn't mean they aren't great fighters themselves.

I feel both are easily in the top 15-20 range of HW (all-time), in fact I have a hard time naming that many I would rank over them. So that's good enough for me and it's sad that people just can't give them credit.

Look....I absolutely hate Marco Antonio Barrera, but I can put emotion and hate aside and judge him accordingly (I feel he is one of the greatest FW off all-time) and I wish others could put their hate aside and give the Klitschko's credit.

Well the question is not whether Wlad was an ATG, I rank him in the top 15. These guys aren't the same person, and though Vitali has good longevity his resume clearly stinks to high heaven.

Nobody is comparing these guys resumes to the likes of Ali or Louis, but they came up short. I believe the guy I replied to was trying to say Vitali or Wlad's best wins were better than Tyson's best wins. Which they are not. At the same time, not many people have Tyson in their top 10 anyways.

[StarshipTrooper]

Poet,

Marciano vs. Klitschko

Who wins?

Holyfield vs. Klitschko

Who wins

Frazier vs. Klitschko

Who wins

Let's see if there's even a slightly objective bone in your body.

Do you know what all three of those fighters have in common? Answer: Unlike today's Heavyweights those three actually know how to get inside and fight when they're at a reach disadvantage.

Now, if you're going to claim the Klits win on weight alone then you need to jog the **** on. If you're a size whore who can't get past weight then there's no point in having any sort of rational discussion with you. I have no time for peeps who watch the weigh-ins with their pants around thei ankles.

And btw, many observers believe a past-prime Holyfield beat Lennox Lewis in their second fight. Given that a past-prime Lennox beat a prime version of the better h2h of the two Klits what in the hell makes you think a prime Holyfield could't do the same?

Poet

[crillz]

Poet:



Mayweather isn't dominant. You can't claim dominance while avoiding the best fights available.

Again, Klitschko has become the most dominant force in boxing. Feel free to make another attempt to dispute that, but don't embarrass yourself by involving Mayweather again.

he fought Juan Manuel Marquez, Shane Mosley, Victor Ortiz, Miguel Cotto, Robert Guerrero and now he is facing Saul Alvarez, this is not dominant? he is not fighting the best? you sure?

[Uturn]

H2H Vitali is an ATG. Looking at his resume you cannot declare Vitali as a true ATG. His resume is lacking, there just aren't any stand out wins. If he had beaten Lewis then things may have been different. Even beating an old Lewis would have been something.