Leonard and Duran speak on Mayweather

[Southpawkiller]

I totally agree. Those guys were monsters. Floyd is a great talent but so what. His two best wins were against a 36 yr. old Oscar and a supposedly shop worn Cotto. If he knew what version of Cotto he was going to fight, the fight might not have happened. I see all of these posts about him being so great but his resume and balls doesn't match up to what his fans say. If he's so great, why did he even fight Ortiz? The Ghost? A blown up Marquez? Who's next? Alexander or Khan or Garcia I think. But does any of those fighters REALLY have a chance? Leonard wouldn't even fight Chavez after he KO'ed LeLonde. He said Chavez was too small and would have gotten hurt. He also said the same thing about Pryor. Outside of Canelo and Manny( depending on how he looks against Rios), I don't want to see him fight anyone else. Martinez is old now but would have came down to 154lb and Floyd didn't want no part of him. The biggest duck in history was when he accused a smaller fighter of juicing just so he wouldn't have to fight him. Now Manny was almost killed by ROIDquez so that fight is pretty much dead too. Excuses, excuses. Now, he won't fight Canelo but he fought Oscar and Cotto at 154lb. His Daddy just said the other day that skills pay the bills, right? So, why isn't this fight going to happen again?

Oscar was 34 years old when he fought Floyd. Shows how little you know about boxing history. Go back to school son.

[jimboinbigd]

How can it be advantage Floyd when Leonard fought tougher, longer fights against better fighters?



SRL fought much better fighters at WW. Maybe he didn't look as dominant in as many areas because he was fighting Duran, Hearns and Benitez. All of these fighters are a leagues better than anyone Floyd has faced at WW.


I'm not getting excited. I scored it 9-3 for Floyd I'm just pointing out there is success to be hard there. Why was he "not as sharp" either Cotto is just good enough to cause problems and therefore Leonard would be or Mayweather isn't "the most consistently conditioned fighter ever? Which one is it?




Diego Corralles isn't on the level of Hearns, that fight was at SFW not WW and Corrales only had a 70 inch reach (to Floyd's 72, so he wasn't longer reaching), Hearns had a 78 inch reach. There isn't a comparison there.


As I've said, the bigger, more powerful, just as fast and almost equally smart Ray Leonard couldn't outbox Hearns so what makes you think Floyd could?


That implies Hearns would have to go toe-to-toe to win. Hearns is a master boxer and had perfected his style of long range boxing. He wouldn't need to go toe-to-toe.




Where's your proof that Floyd was better conditioned. I never said Hearns was better conditioned just that he has more proven stamina by going 14 rounds in tough, close fights against ATG's. Floyd at WW has went 12 easy rounds with over-matched opponents.


Leonard wasn't fading, he turned it up in the 13th. Just before that Hearns was doing well. It was a 4 part tale. Hearns doing well early, Leonard in the middle, Hearns at the beginning of the latter half and then Leonard getting the stoppage.



I agree



He's yet to be seriously tested at WW because he hasn't fought anyone that was incredibly good. Hence people pick Hearns over him.






Shame Hagler never fought at 154... The idea that Floyd beats Hagler at MW is mere delusion and nothing else.

lol...good responses. We'll never know, but imo, and I watched all of them in their primes, and I don't ever remember thinking one boxer was so much better than all the rest like I have with Floyd. Tyson until he lost comes to mind. Holmes in his prime comes to mind. It's a shame Floyd and Manny didn't meet a few years ago because imo, Floyd would have schooled him and Floyd wouldn't get the rap for not fighting the best, etc, and imo, the comments about Floyd ducking a "prime" Cotto, Margarito, and Paul Williams are just dumb.

Anyway, look for Mayweather to fight Canelo at 154, with perhaps a fight day catch weight, then look for Floyd to school the rest of the chumps they place in front of him (including Manny at some point), then retire at 50-0 eventually, and as one of the greatest ever. Lack of KO power, making it look so easy, and no signature fight with someone as good as him, will challenge his claim as "TGE" but he'll be in the conversation whether his detractors want to believe it or not.

Oh, and those who think Floyd might be dodging and ducking Canelo with his weight requests. Nope. Mayweather is simply using the weight to gain more dollars in a compromise. A fight day catch weight of 160-165 would be reasonable though considering Floyd will probably come in at 152 or so.

Floyd needs Canelo at 154 and for Manny to KO Rios. Anything short of this will cost him a lot of money going forward. And the slightly weaker PPV numbers against Guerrero was the best thing to happen for all of us who want to see Mayweather fight Canelo and Pac. A Devon Alexander fight would be a complete dud. Canelo has more leverage than he realized. Floyd needs the Mexican market, plus Canelo has Cotto out there.

[Barn]

lol...good responses. We'll never know, but imo, and I watched all of them in their primes, and I don't ever remember thinking one boxer was so much better than all the rest like I have with Floyd.

That's cool, we'll just have to disagree on the Hearns fight then.

[GOD-FR33]

Doesn't matter.

Doesn't matter. The fact is, that Oscar was flat-footed, old, and super rich at that point. After 8 rounds, Oscar was up a point on the cards. He blew the fight, Floyd didn't win it because he was "better". De La Hoya that fought Vargas at 154, Mosley, and Campas would outpoint Floyd. PERIOD. And that wasn't even a prime Oscar! A prime Oscar at 147 who fought Whitaker, Trinidad, Oba Carr, and Quartey beats him as well. Age is why Oscar lost his last two fights against Manny and Floyd. Who are you to question my boxing knowledge man? Check my rep and points. Smh.

[bravestone]

Mayweather's ledger compared to the comp those guys faced is laughable. Hell Oscar Delahoya's resume craps on Floyd's. It's not even close.

[jimboinbigd]

Corrales, Gotti, Judah, ODL, Hatton, Marquez, Mosley, Cotto, and eventually Canelo and Pac would pretty much cover every top fighter of his generation. Add a 49-0, or 50-0 record to that, his best in history Compubox stats, his probably going down as the best defender and counterpuncher in the history of the sport, his box office records at the gate and on PPV, and his reign as the best P4P fighter for pretty much 15 straight years, and there is little doubt where he will rank on the All Time List.

Most of you younger guys and haters will be talking to your children and grandchildren one day about how dominant he was. He's still in the midst of building his resume. When he's done, only the fools who actually believe a cheating bag like Margarito would have stood a chance against him will remain.

[billeau2]

Yeah, because Leonard had terrible conditioning. It wasn't like he fought 15 round fights against ATG's or anything. He also was a complete mess against defensive fighters like Benitez and could barely land on him.


I didn't say Leonard had terrible conditioning. But it can be argued that no fighter in the history of the sport consistently enters the ring better conditioned than Floyd. Advantage Floyd.

In all seriousness Leonard had a masterful jab and exquisite timing.

SRL is one of my top 3 favorite Boxers of ALL TIME. Him, Tyson, and Floyd. I grew up a fan of his, but I'm telling you, he wasn't nearly as dominant in as many areas as Floyd has been. SRL has the bigger fights and bigger moments on his resume, and the showmanship, and big flurries and combinations, but Floyd has everything else...by far.

Fighters like Cotto had some success with the jab against Floyd and Leonard's jab is a much bigger, faster, smarter and better version than Cotto's. I'll tell you for free that Floyd's defence alone wouldn't win him the fight.

Floyd was not as sharp in the Cotto fight, and he got popped a few times. Big deal. Floyd was never hurt or in trouble during that fight. And this is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. Even in a comfortable victory for Mayweather, people get excited about that fight, because Mayweather actually took a little punishment. SRL took punishment and got hit on a regular basis but nobody remembers that.



So Floyd would "potshot" Hearns who has a huge reach and height advantage?

Go and watch the Floyd and Diego Corralles fight then come back here and tell me Mayweather can't potshot taller and longer reaching opponents.


Potshot as in hit in range and then get out of there? That might be the worst tactic ever against Hearns who would jab him to death on the outside and then smash him as he moved inside with Floyd barely being able to get to him. The way to beat Hearns is with sustained hard-punching pressure, you can't outbox him. Leonard nearly learned that the hard way.


In my opinion, Floyd's Defense and athleticism would have allowed him to survive Hearns early, then outbox him later for the victory. Especially in a 15 rd fight. Floyd could go 20 rds, dude. Perhaps the greatest conditioned athlete in the sport. And I'm not just talking cardio and endurance. The kid has done it all and dominated every style he's ever faced. He would have been too smart to go toe to toe with Hearns, and with that, Floyd would have had every advantage after that, imo.

Not to mention, Hearns' stamina is more proven that Floyd's so that statement really has no validity.

I disagree. I've only seen Floyd get stronger in fights while I recall Hearns clearly gassing out against Leonard in their first fight. Where is your proof he was better conditioned than Floyd?

Considering Floyd is rarely in competitive 12 round fights where he has to work hard. Hearns only faded in the 14 round after being pummeled by hard body and head shots from Leonard and still never went properly down.

Hearns and Leonard were both fading in that fight, but Leonard had a few flurries remaining and took advantage of Hearns' dead legs. And don't kid yourself, Hearns was getting beat up and would have fallen had the fight not been stopped. Mayweather is go good, he's never come close to a situation like that. This is part of the problem. Because Floyd has yet to be seriously tested, people don't give him his proper respect.




At Middleweight? Don't be ridiculous. :lol1

At Middleweight maybe not, but I won't rule it out, and at 154, Floyd beats him in a UD.

nonsense

Floyd almost sucumbed to Oscar's jab....a far cry from Hearn's jab...or SRL's for that matter....

And Cotto is proving to be, when we take away the soundtrack and biased punchstat BS, what was a competative fight for Floyd. Cotto is a great fighter...Duran was a better version though.

Also as Ray says...Floyd was not the same size so its academic and even more nonsensical to think he could fight a guy like hearns. EVEN if we give Floyd the benefit of the doubt and say Hearns had a bit of a chin problem...No one can say with a straight face that catching Hearns with a technically perfect, straight, Floyd shot....would shake him up!

Think logically for a moment....And I grew up watching from around the time before SRL so I saw both in action, I am a fan of Floyd's and I know better!

[MJ223]

Leonard ducked Pryor like the plague!!! Only fought Hagler coming off a grueling fight w Mugabi. Facts!! Like Hagler said, "Ima sit back and lick my chops."

Every era had there ducks and stalls to make fights happen, this is not a new trend.

[jimboinbigd]

nonsense

Floyd almost sucumbed to Oscar's jab....a far cry from Hearn's jab...or SRL's for that matter....

And Cotto is proving to be, when we take away the soundtrack and biased punchstat BS, what was a competative fight for Floyd. Cotto is a great fighter...Duran was a better version though.

Also as Ray says...Floyd was not the same size so its academic and even more nonsensical to think he could fight a guy like hearns. EVEN if we give Floyd the benefit of the doubt and say Hearns had a bit of a chin problem...No one can say with a straight face that catching Hearns with a technically perfect, straight, Floyd shot....would shake him up!

Think logically for a moment....And I grew up watching from around the time before SRL so I saw both in action, I am a fan of Floyd's and I know better!

I think you're underestimating Floyd's intelligence, conditioning, and will to win. Nobody has ever taken Floyd into deep waters..ever. He's never been knocked down (really, not technically due to hurt hand), and Floyd has only had one judge out of a possible 130 or so that thought he didn't win the fight.

You're watching history, my friend.

[Build That Wall]

Floyd beats Leonard

Duran beats Floyd.