Who ranks higher ATG, Lewis or Wladamir

[Simurgh]

If he met someone with the swagger of a champion like Holyfield, it might have been different.

I elaborated the reasoning in my previous post and to add..

You see in Bowe vs Holyfiled how they lean against each other (they are bullying each other in some sense) and then bum-bum, there is a furious exchange from the inside, so it's about who can take more and still give it.
I don't really like that style, never did, but I understand some people do.
Don't be fooled it would be same against Wlad - he fights diametrically different to that.

I see prime Haye, with his speed and power (both superior to that version of Holyfield IMO) much more troubling for wlad.

Byrd was a master of defense and was coming inside and trying to box, but he was utterly outclassed by Wlad. Now I know after Lennox beat Holyfiled (and even much before that) Holyfiled was past it, but Byrd did outbox him.

I really can't see Holyfiled coming inside consistently (for 12 rounds - something I believe he would need to do to win) and not taking more damage than Wlad.

[LacedUp]

division doesn't have a particularly rich history, to say the least. that doesn't mean we should acclaim Haye inordinately just because his is one of the better records of a fairly mediocre bunch. it's a pretty thin docket, if we're being honest, light on really creditable feats.

You can only beat what's in front of you. Haye beat a 10 year reigning EBU champ, KOd him in 45 seconds. Then KOd lineal champ and KOd another title holder.

With regards to the bold, I guess the same can be said for the Klitschkos.

[PEBBLES!]

Well, when you put gloves on you have the right to say something like that. If you met him face to face, you would crumble into the little shell you belong in.

that's a very silly riposte, sounds like something that a woman would say in defence of her man, but i'll humour you.

i'm not into invading peoples' personal space. i don't even walk up on fighters i admire when they're milling around greeting and signing for folks. just not my style. i think about how i'd value my space if i were in their shoes, although i do appreciate that guys give so much of themselves to the people.

so, considering that, i'd have little reason to even acknowledge Haye were he in my close vicinity.

besides, he's an experienced professional fighter, of course he'd beat my ass. but going into a shell when conflict arises is also not my style. in the unlikely event that he and i were ever to clash in a social situation and the prospect of fisticuffs were to arise, i would probably grab the nearest bottle and attempt to gloss him.

[Weltschmerz]

Wlad has made me a fan of his by the way he conducts himself outside the ring. I'm not so keen on him as a fighter, I always preferred his brother more, but I will give Wlad the credit he deserves, he's pretty much assured ATG status for the his domination of a weak era, but it's still been total domination however you want to slice it. His brothers record doesnt hold a candle to Wlads.

Now on the subject of Wlad vs Lewis, whilst I might be a bit biased towards Lewis, even with that removed, I cant honestly put Wlad over Lewis.

Lewis was the last of the mohicans

Prime Wlad vs prime Lewis would have been a great fight. It's 50/50. Lewis has a better resume, but Wlad's not finished yet, it could get close at the end of the day.

[M Bison]

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Lets not forget David Price...

[PEBBLES!]

You can only beat what's in front of you. Haye beat a 10 year reigning EBU champ, KOd him in 45 seconds. Then KOd lineal champ and KOd another title holder.

With regards to the bold, I guess the same can be said for the Klitschkos.

funny, 'cause i was about to venture that one could say the same for the Klitschkos re. the type i've just bolded in your post.


if they don't have a string of truly inspiring comp, the K's at least have longevity and professional conduct worthy of true champs to their credit.

[LacedUp]

funny, 'cause i was about to venture that one could say the same for the Klitschkos re. the type i've just bolded in your post.


if they don't have a string of truly inspiring comp, the K's at least have longevity and professional conduct worthy of true champs to their credit.

And that's exactly my point when it comes to the Klitschkos. They have been great in this era. Fought and beat more or less everyone. And they should get respect for that. However, they both turned pro in 1996 but none were really relevant before after Lennox retired. So I cannot put them in Top 10 or even close. Because they haven't proved they could hang with guys in a great era.

[DreamFighter]

Prime Wlad vs prime Lewis would have been a great fight. It's 50/50. Lewis has a better resume, but Wlad's not finished yet, it could get close at the end of the day.

if you haven't done it by the time you are 37 and are still looking to deliver then the only record you can hope for is longevity.

In direct contrast, Lewis had done it all by the age of 37, and was looking forward to a Jamaican retirement.

There can be no greater gulf between the two than the fact you just raised, thanks for bringing it up. This massive gulf would have illustrated itself in the ring too with a solid early KO for Lewis.

[New England]

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Lets not forget David Price...

that looks like a scene from Breakin' 2.

[PEBBLES!]

And that's exactly my point when it comes to the Klitschkos. They have been great in this era. Fought and beat more or less everyone. And they should get respect for that. However, they both turned pro in 1996 but none were really relevant before after Lennox retired. So I cannot put them in Top 10 or even close. Because they haven't proved they could hang with guys in a great era.

i'm not a passionate Klitschko defender. i like those fellows and have enjoyed watching one or the other at varying points of their careers, but there's too much subjectivity and 'guesswork' (for want of a better way of putting it) that has to come into play when one attempts to evaluate their place in history.

ultimately i just don't care enough about where they stand to make an impassioned argument either way. they're pretty good.

it's the baiting of Haye fans that interests me more.