All Time Great Or Great For His Era?

[IronDanHamza]

it is, but thats because Lopez just didn't grow out of those classes. I dont think Lopez should be "penalized" for genetic reasons.

Hagler's most notable fights are with fighters who moved up to 160 (with the exception of antefuermo and minter.) Lopez didnt have a Hearns, srl, duran, or mugabi underneath him to move into his weight class.

I understand your points about him being undefeated and the title defenses. I would disagree. I think here on NSB the climate makes posters under appreciate everything it takes to defend a title that many times and not lose.

I'm not penailizing him for stating in one division. Carlos Monzon stayed in one divison and his resume is ATG calibur.

I'm just simply saying, for me, his resume isn't what I would call ATG calibur.

I wouldn't disagree if you thought he's a great fighter.

[S. Saddler 1310]

That wasn't the argument though...lol

There was a list, I just said that Lopez should be part of the ATG. That's it, I didn't argue against anyone else.

you said Toney and McCallum didn't belong.

[IronDanHamza]

Dan none of us can use just your criteria for ATG status to argue for Lopez. Those of us saing he is an ATG are saying so because we think his being undefeated and making that number of defenses. we find that accomplishment worthy of ATG status.

I'm not saying you should. I was merely asking.

And as for the rest, I disagree but that's fair enough.

[The Big Dunn]

I'm not penailizing him for stating in one division. Carlos Monzon stayed in one divison and his resume is ATG calibur.

I'm just simply saying, for me, his resume isn't what I would call ATG calibur.

I wouldn't disagree if you thought he's a great fighter.

I can agree in part about his resume with the caveat being the obscurity of his divisions makes it difficult to accurately guage how good his resume is. I don't think name value is the best way to evaluate a resume.

If James Toney fights Iran Barkley and Lopez fights some guy we don't know- most would say Barkley is better because of name value and they know he beat Hearns etc. But if Toney is -$250 favorite over Iran and Lopez is a -$250 favorite over "guy we don't know"-thats about an equal win to me.

[RubenSonny]

I would take off Toney and McCallum. Great fighters but not ATG.

Ricardo Lopez "possibly"? I think it's safe to say he's an ATG.

Ridiculous to suggest such a thing. He has an argument to be greater than most on that list.

[IronDanHamza]

I can agree in part about his resume with the caveat being the obscurity of his divisions makes it difficult to accurately guage how good his resume is. I don't think name value is the best way to evaluate a resume.

If James Toney fights Iran Barkley and Lopez fights some guy we don't know- most would say Barkley is better because of name value and they know he beat Hearns etc. But if Toney is -$250 favorite over Iran and Lopez is a -$250 favorite over "guy we don't know"-thats about an equal win to me.

I didn't say anything about name value.

James Toney simply beat much better fighters than Lopez did and I struggle to see how that's arguable.

I completely disagree with the last paragraph but fair enough.

[HWChampion]

I'm sure Lennox is amongst that list.

[Truth]

Yeah I think Lennox Lewis is an all time great heavyweight. He just got unfocused sometimes, but when he had his mind right, he kicked alot of ass.

[edgarg]

Ricardo Lopez is only the 3rd fighter in the history of boxing to retire undefeated. He fought 52 times and defended his title a record 26 times.

I think it's safe to say he's an ATG....lol

I'm sure there are a few more than that.

[KickAzz]

I wouldn't consider RJJ an all-time great. just great for his era. he should've rematch James Toney at a higher weight. and he should've rematched Hopkins when that fight was hot. he should've fought Lewis for 25 million and called up Tarver to fight at HW instead of going back down to lt HW.

if RJJ was able to come back from getting KTFO by Tarver and continue to win, then he'd be considered an ATG