Who will be remembered as the greater fighter..

[Bermuda]

I don't consider Marquez at his peak/prime in 2008 though....he was still amazing though. Kind of like Manny and Floyd in 2010.

i thought pac beat marquez in the first fight by 1 point..and pac was robbed of a win anyway since one of the judges forgot to score the first round 10-6 ..instead the judge scored it 10-7. the 10-6 would have gave pac the official win for the first fight instead of a draw.

[BattlingNelson]

I voted Floyd. On face value it should probably be Holyfield but he, and others in the poll, are too suspect for me regarding PED use.

[D-MiZe]

We're discussing Pacquaio's position on the ATG list, yes. And how it's not set in stone in regards to him being higher than Holyfield. And, that's on the basis his resume is better IMO or at the very least comparable.

Hopkins might not have been Champion in 4 weight classes but he is the only fighter in history to have a World Title at 47 years old. Something no one else has done and an incredibley impressive feat. It still doesn't set in stone he's above Holyfield.

I'm basically saying just because you achieve something no one else has, it doesn't set in stone you're higher than someone.

Most of the greatest fighters of all time, haven't done unprecedented things. All they've done is racked up the greatest resumes of all time by beating the best fighters.

Pac's position being set in stone was a flippant remark but I'd bet you a pound to a pinch of salt that he sits higher on future lists. Whether I or you agree with it.

I understand what you're saying and an ATG list can have many different criteria. As long as one is able to give a sufficient reason as to why they have who where then I don't really mind what the list looks like.

Pac leading The Ring's poll isn't bizarre or ridiculous though, that's the point I'm trying to get at. He's proven and credible enough to be higher than Holyfield.

Would be interesting to see how Duran vs Pac, multi-weight achievement wise, would do on here though.

[-Kev-]

Roy Jones Jr should win the poll, but that doesn't mean he will, with the state that NSB is in. Overrun by ******s.

[BennyST]

I'm arguing that a resume says who's win, by how they won and when they won. It doesn't say how good their performance was, the scorecards can be manipulated etc. It is but a part of what determines how great a fighter is tbh.

This is the only thing that matters. Performance is secondary. It plays a part, but it's secondary to who you beat. It should never determine if a fighter is better than another, if that other fighter has beaten better guys. It doesn't matter what he looks like.

If fighter A beats 5 HOFers yet obviously struggles in each, while fighter B looks amazing beating some ok champs, the simple fact remains that fighter A is greater. It's literally that simple.

You beat better fighters, you are the better fighter. Performance should only come into play when looking at things after who someone beat. It adds on to it, but it never, ever takes the place of who someone beat.

In reality, Ray Leonard looked pretty bloody awful when he beat Duran. Duran did too, but...He still beat a top ten ATG. Hopkins has scragged his way through some great win, despite looking ugly, boring and scrappy. He still won. It's all that matters.

Calzaghe looking amazing vs Lacy is great stuff. Looked sensational. The way he slapped, scragged, spazzed out, flopped around and looked like a general ****** vs Hopkins is still ten times better. He beat Hopkins.

Who you beat (and when) = how great you are.

Performance plays a small, secondary part, but when it comes down to it, it's not that important.

[D-MiZe]

Ultimately though, the fighters that someone beat, assuming they actually beat them, should determine greatness above all else. To kind of butt in your discussion with IronDan, that's why Pacquiao is an ATG, more than the division climbing. The division climbing helps make his wins look even better, but even independent of the weight he has good wins over good and great fighters. That's also why some of the bigger names, like Morales or Oscar, should not be considered as great as they probably are considered.

I agree.

Pac's ascent of the weights certainly does supplement his ATG rating, without that he wouldn't be rated as highly as he is. It does all come down to who you've beaten, rather than how many divisions you've conquered. Pac's 'reign' at lightweight is forgettable.

@BennyST: Bradley didn't beat Pacquiao, resume says otherwise. That's the point I'm trying to make.

[ShamrockXpress]

Evanders skill, technique, warrior mentality, resume and titles won set him apart from most boxers. People can talk about 6 weight world champs (may) and 8 weight world champs (Pac), how come no one mentions the fact that the real deal started off as a 175 pounder then as an old man was robbed against a 7ft 310 pounder, have either of them ever give away that much weight, if the big boys had the beauty of a weight class every 4-7 pounds like may and pac, how many titles would have evander won?

[MJ223]

Who you beat and when you beat them should matter more than anything else. I cannot believe people are arguing otherwise. Who beat the better fighters matters more than anything else.

This.....

I thought this was common knowledge.?.?.? Eh guess not

[Ray Corso]

Evander is easily the best fighter out of this grouping, its not really close at all! His combination of boxing and fighting skills is above everyone on the list!
The names on his record speaks for itself also, no ones compares to his! Ray.

[damuttz112]

Evanders skill, technique, warrior mentality, resume and titles won set him apart from most boxers. People can talk about 6 weight world champs (may) and 8 weight world champs (Pac), how come no one mentions the fact that the real deal started off as a 175 pounder then as an old man was robbed against a 7ft 310 pounder, have either of them ever give away that much weight, if the big boys had the beauty of a weight class every 4-7 pounds like may and pac, how many titles would have evander won?

TBH, I think he was looking for that 5-Time Heavyweight Champion title, it stuffed him up. If he had gotten the nod against Valuev I reckon Evander would have retired as a 5-Time World Champion.