Where do you rank Harry Greb?

[deliveryman]

Think about it. You have a teacher TELLING things to learn, you have books that you study to learn things. These are all things that OTHERS are telling you is true. By the standards that Deliveryman is using to apply to boxing is that not "anecdotal"?

Poet

What do you think science is? We understand the laws of gravity not merely because "Newton said so in a book", but because it can be DEMONSTRATED to be true. There are certain demonstrable facts that can be observed and are completely independent of anyone telling us so. Even concepts of abstract things can be demonstrated to be true, like logical absolutes (i.e the law of non-contradiction) as well as mathematical proofs.

Like I said, laughable.

[Japanese Boxing]

What do you think science is? We understand the laws of gravity not merely because "Newton said so in a book", but because it can be DEMONSTRATED to be true. There are certain demonstrable facts that can be observed and are completely independent of anyone telling us so. There are also logical absolutes that can be demonstrated as well as mathematical proofs.

Like I said, laughable.

Harry Greb DEMONSTRATED that he was one of the best because of the guys he was in resume, which is recorded in a book.

Total fights 299
Wins 261
Wins by KO 48
Losses 20
Draws 17
No contests 1

****ing flawless math right there bro

[Poet682006]

What do you think science is? We understand the laws of gravity not merely because "Newton said so in a book", but because it can be DEMONSTRATED to be true. There are certain demonstrable facts that can be observed and are completely independent of anyone telling us so. Even abstract things can be demonstrated to be true, like logical absolutes (i.e the law of non-contradiction) as well as mathematical proofs.

Like I said, laughable.

Caesar subdued the Gauls at Alesia.....try proving that mathematically. I have no doubt it happened, though, even without scientific proofs. Or don't they teach that in school these days?

Poet

[deliveryman]

Harry Greb DEMONSTRATED that he was one of the best because of the guys he was in resume, which is recorded in a book.

Total fights 299
Wins 261
Wins by KO 48
Losses 20
Draws 17
No contests 1

****ing flawless math right there bro

Harry Greb demonstrated he was one the best of his era. I readily admit this.

His era also happens to primitive and ancient and really irrelevant now in a modern context. In the sense that there are no new insights from that era that haven't been discovered by subsequent eras.

[The Tase]

im sorry but i cant rate anybody highly who fought so long ago that he has no fight footage & someone who has two sets of records his official record & newspaper record.

He fought in a era were referees were also judges & were corruption were even more rampant than today. Black people didnt have equal rights. how can somebody even have a fair shake in sports against during that time period?

all the footage i see of him he does not look impressive at all.

All these old geezers rating him up so high have no leg to stand on & are just doing it to preserve history.

imo his perceived level of greatness is bogus & does not translate over to different time periods just like almost all great athletes who were great before 1970.

If you were a great athlete before 1970 (at least) your athletic greatness does not translate over to different time periods.

[i_am_a_champ]

It is amazing how a fighter no 1 has seen fight is ranked so high..yet these same people down fighters they see fight all the time

But you've seen Manny Pacquiao fight numerous times and you still cannot give him his props and due respects.
Theres Mannys fight videos on youtube.com . What does that say about you?


So going by your logic, its clear that:

1) Fight footage is of no meaning to you, you dont care about it when judging a boxers qualities, attributes, skills, greatness or strengths.

2) You are not a fan of boxing , more so of a BOXER ( mayweather jr )

3) Your dismissal of the late harry grebs boxing prowess based upon 'no fight footage' is a fallacy according to your own logic, which leads to the conclusion that:

-you are dismissing harry greb due to something other than what you claim is the reason for his dismissal ( lack of fight footage, nobody has seen him fight )

-your presented argument is based on something other than facts or supported data. You do not talk about resumes, skills, feats of accomplishments or any type of qualitative or quantitative data.

-instead it is carried upon what appears to be some sort of contaminated view of harry greb due to your own misjudgements, lack of boxing awareness or consciousness, a pretence of being a boxing diety that is based upon a unstructured engine of thought and basis of an argument that appears to be beyond your own cognition. Basically it means: you dont know what you are talking about.




Let me present this to you Larryx:




Six-time Kentucky State Golden Gloves Champion
1959 Chicago Golden Gloves Tournament of Champions Light Heavyweight Champion vs. Jeff Davis
1959 Intercity Golden Gloves Light Heavyweight Champion vs. Tony Madigan
1960 Chicago Golden Gloves Tournament of Champions Heavyweight Champion vs. Jimmy Jones
1960 Intercity Golden Gloves Heavyweight Champion vs. Gary Jawish
1959 National AAU Light Heavyweight Champion vs. Johnny Powell
1960 National AAU Light Heavyweight Champion vs. Jeff Davis
1960 Olympic Light Heavyweight Gold Medalist in Rome, Italy.



Thats Muhammad Alis ( then cassius clay ) Amatuer career achievments. There exist little footage of his Amatuer fight record. (over 100 or so).

If we are to STRICTLY and ONLY judge Alis amatuer career , according to YOU and YOUR LOGIC , Muhammad Ali should not fair well against the current light heavy weight olympic champion , Egor Mekhontcev ( whom we have footage on and who just fought in the 2012 olympics)

Your answer should be that Egor beats the p1ss out of Muhammad ali, amirite?

Since hardly anybody saw Ali fight as an amatuer and everyone just saw Egor Mekhontcev fight, how can any SANE person believe Egor would lose to Muhammad Ali in the amatuers... amirite?

Who cares about stats, resumes, accounts of historians, accounts of fighters them selves who saw him and may have faced him, newspaper clippings and anything else. No fight footage means in the amatuers...Egor tapps Ali's ass ...violently

These oldtimers and their nonsense huh...?! tut tut @ oldtimers...

[deliveryman]

[COLOR="DarkOrchid"]Caesar subdued the Gauls at Alesia.....try proving that mathematically. I have no doubt it happened, though, even without scientific proofs. Or don't they teach that in school these days?

Poet

Yes, History is alive and well.

You completely missed the point.

I said: anecdotal evidence is the worst type of evidence." I didn't say that it was completely invalid, only that it is the least reliable. This is especially true in history before cameras, film, the printing press etc. The further back in history you go, the more it relies on anecdotes. Subsequently the further back in history you go, the less reliable it becomes.

You said: "Everything in school relies on anecdotes". I pointed out science doesn't, logic doesn't and math doesn't.

[Larry the boss]

People in this thread already HAVE presented valid (not valet you dumb ****) arguments. You, however, just reject them out of hand like a petulant little child. Then you get butt hurt when people point out your foolishness: I'm hardly the only person in this thread to highlight the absurdity of your position.

I sense you're on the verge of another three month long tantrum.

Poet

Show me one of his fights

[Larry the boss]

im sorry but i cant rate anybody highly who fought so long ago that he has no fight footage & someone who has two sets of records his official record & newspaper record.

He fought in a era were referees were also judges & were corruption were even more rampant than today. Black people didnt have equal rights. how can somebody even have a fair shake in sports against during that time period?

all the footage i see of him he does not look impressive at all.

All these old geezers rating him up so high have no leg to stand on & are just doing it to preserve history.

imo his perceived level of greatness is bogus & does not translate over to different time periods just like almost all great athletes who were great before 1970.

If you were a great athlete before 1970 (at least) your athletic greatness does not translate over to different time periods.

Exactly the only footage we have of him looks laughable...so way he ranks over fighters like Duran Leonard,Whitaker,Hopkins,Floyd,Manny..they would wipe the floor with his without breaking a sweat

[Doctor_Tenma]

Seriously though that sparring session better have been some joke, it only strengthens my opinion on fighters who are ranked highly all time with no footage of them. Resume can't be the only means of ranking, one has to analyze that fighter's skill or whether he dominated or not and I'm not talking scorecards.