I was watching Sugar Ray Leonard on Ringside on ESPN Classics

[Frank Ducketts]

Even though its off topic, Hatton ruined himself, not Cortez.

[Frank Ducketts]

one thing i will always say about sugar shane mosley, when he was at the top of the sport, was he went ahead and took on vernon forrest, a natural welterweight, who was all wrong for him stylewise, tall, rangy boxer, with a good jab, and better than average pop in the right hand...fought him 2x...i still wonder, if floyd mayweather jr., will find himself up against a similar challenge, against a fighter of similar caliber to vernon forrest (rip) now that the actual fighter is no longer with us...

I picked Forrest in both fights too, but Shane earned tremendous points for both fights win or lose.

[elfag]

Floyd is more technically sound, has better defense and is more skilled but was more naturally athletic and a natural welter. He would be too much for floyd, his speed, size and activity. He was smart too, I scored the Hagler fight 8-4 for SRL. There would be a lot of rounds where it was about even 2 minutes into it and SRL sensed it and would step on the gas the last minute of the fight to win the round. Sort of like what DLH tried to do, but instead of flurrying for the last 10 seconds when he hears the bell, stepping it up about the whole last minute. I think floyd would be behind on points and not able to catch up. It would be a good fight though. Floyd isnt getting stopped.

[PED Salesman]

Dude your smoking ..I have seen the fight over 1000 times and i will post a youtube link. Leonard showed no lateral movment in that 1st fight til round 5. None. What your referring to was simply the start of the round, feeling out, jabs etc. Ray got caught with a left hook. You picked out one punch, Ray also got hit again in round 4. After round 4 what happened. Ray became more confident landed punc for punch, and when he boxed duran in rounds 5 and 6, then the 2nd fitht, Duran had no answer.

Maybe you should read the history of the first fight. Ray and Dundee had studied duran for a while. Duran was supposed to move up and fight leoanrd earlier, but he looked bad in first fight at welter, and Leonard then decided to fight Benetiz. After the benitez fight Ray was signed. SIGNED to fight cuevas. However, duran people got this changed, no one knows how, but instead of cuevas it became duran. Ray studied duran and thought he could knock him out, and that because of Dejesus that did not use much lateral movement he could outbox him and that he would be stronger. This is from Rays own words, in a fist full of sugar. Get the book.

Weeks before the fight duran and ray got into a exchange at a press conference where they pushed and damm near came to blows and again when duran flipped off ray and his wife in montreal. Ray wanted to ko duran. Now what many people forget is that in many fights Ray chose to not dance or use lateral movement. He was flat footed vs Beneitz, Kalule, Price etc. Vs duran he tried unsuccessfully to go toe to toe because that was his stated game plan going into the fight.

After the fight he changed styles and no duran was just fine for 2nd fight. Had he won we never would have heard anything. But when he lost the first thing we heard was he said no mas. False. Then that he had cramps false. Duran himself said on page 202 of the hands of stone autobiography, he said "No quiero pelear con el payaso" Meaning I do not want to fight with this clown. No he had cramps nothing, he was simply frusterated, and did not want to ko'd. I dont know about the ko, but he was starting to get hit flush.

I suggest you watch both fights again. I know each round totally. If you claim he was using lateral movement and duran cut off the ring in the first fight, your smoking crack. He was not. the best you can claim is the round startd round two the were feeling each other out, jabs etc... in teh center of the ring, then ray got hit with a short half left hook that backed him and the fifht was on. NO LATERAL MOVEMENT. 7:49 mark of this video. NO lateral movment. Study up bro.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLd_6JDLiT4

Just lame excuses. Look at the difference in the lateral movement between first fight and 2nd fight, and what ray did when duran tried to tie him up in 2nd fight. Man im really doubting you even saw the fight. Do i need to post the youtube links on here for you. Totally different fighters in Ray the first fight. First fight ray just languished on the ropes ready to fight with his backs on the ropes, send time duran would rush in and get countered then ray would either not be there due to lateral movement or he would tie him and spin or would counter repeatedly and spin off and get back into the center of the ring. Only a couple ot times in the 2nd fight did ray stay on the ropes. Man look at the fights. Look closley at how ray would move back and forth and how duran would try to cut off the ring and when he step forward ray would reverse movement the other way. Also, Look at how in the 2nd fight instead of throwing the overhand right hand which a great defensive fighter in duran, he could easily slip ( and he did in the 1st fight) in the 2nd fight ray throw hooks and upper cuts when duran came in, and repeatedly caught duran coming in.

Dude I know ever single Ray leonard fight inside out. Your over your head. I studied the history of the duran and leonard fight. Did you know Ray had a serious flu before the first fight, and was stuck in New york for a while and there was concerns that he would not make it. This allowed Duran time to get the crowd a crowd that Leonard was fond of due to where he won his gold medal,, but duran was up there with the crowd a week before and fight night Duran had just as many fans if not more, and this was new to Ray.

Study the fight bro.

So why didn't Leonard want a third fight soon after, if he thought he beat the best Duran in the second?

[wpink1]

So why didn't Leonard want a third fight soon after, if he thought he beat the best Duran in the second?

Seriously. Come on man. Was you around back then. Duran acrtually quit for a while after he quit. He was disgraced back home etc. Plus the big fight was tommy hearns who was 32-0 30 ko's. Not a rubber match with duran at the time. If leoanrd had never made the hearns fight, then he would forever be called a ducker. Then if you forgot he had a detached retina that lmited a lot regarding fights leonard could have made. But no one ever remebers that from 1979-81 he fought the all time toughest schedule ever. 4 top all time pound per pounder ( benetiz, hearns, duran twice) ....Then fought a undefeated jr middle 36-0 then retired came back 5 years later moved up 2 weight classes and beat a only 32 year old hagler who had never lost in 10 years, and just beat by ko his toughest 3 foes.... ( so much for the bs he was shot.... based off of what a tough fight form a undefeated challenger the fight before who was 25-0 with 23 or 25 ko's). All you ever hear is what ray didnt do. Tell me who did what ray did.

[BattlingNelson]

Pink coming out of retirement telling truth.

Great to see you back.

[PED Salesman]

Seriously. Come on man. Was you around back then. Duran acrtually quit for a while after he quit. He was disgraced back home etc. Plus the big fight was tommy hearns who was 32-0 30 ko's. Not a rubber match with duran at the time. If leoanrd had never made the hearns fight, then he would forever be called a ducker. Then if you forgot he had a detached retina that lmited a lot regarding fights leonard could have made. But no one ever remebers that from 1979-81 he fought the all time toughest schedule ever. 4 top all time pound per pounder ( benetiz, hearns, duran twice) ....Then fought a undefeated jr middle 36-0 then retired came back 5 years later moved up 2 weight classes and beat a only 32 year old hagler who had never lost in 10 years, and just beat by ko his toughest 3 foes.... ( so much for the bs he was shot.... based off of what a tough fight form a undefeated challenger the fight before who was 25-0 with 23 or 25 ko's). All you ever hear is what ray didnt do. Tell me who did what ray did.

In a post-fight interview, Duran said he would not retire as he had said immediately after the fight, and that he wants to beat Leonard in a third fight, because they were 1 to 1, and Leonard hasn't settled the score and has to give him a rematch. When hearing that, Leonard said he would never fight Duran again (gave some excuse about the media).

I agree that Leonard is a great fighter, and I'm a Leonard fan too because of the things he's done in his career. That's why I don't believe he was dumb enough to fight Duran head-on unless it was the best strategy he could have used that particular night (which I believe it was).

You mentioned rounds 5 and 6 in the first fight. You watch them again. Leonard didn't win them boxing Duran and moving about. He won those rounds with flurries from inside the pocket when being pressured, and standing his ground. When Leonard was moving and using his jab at the beginning of 5 and 6, you're watching what Leonard is doing, but you're not watching what Duran is doing. Duran took his foot off the gas and boxed with him a little to give himself a break. As soon as Leonard landed long, hard hooks in each of those rounds from the outside, Duran put the pressure back on and drove Leonard back into the ropes (where Leonard successfully fought him back). You act like Leonard had a choice of when to box that night... that's not how it went down. Duran was forcing Leonard to fight like that, and rounds 5 and 6 prove my point, not yours.

[djtmal]

In a post-fight interview, Duran said he would not retire as he had said immediately after the fight, and that he wants to beat Leonard in a third fight, because they were 1 to 1, and Leonard hasn't settled the score and has to give him a rematch. When hearing that, Leonard said he would never fight Duran again (gave some excuse about the media).

I agree that Leonard is a great fighter, and I'm a Leonard fan too because of the things he's done in his career. That's why I don't believe he was dumb enough to fight Duran head-on unless it was the best strategy he could have used that particular night (which I believe it was).

You mentioned rounds 5 and 6 in the first fight. You watch them again. Leonard didn't win them boxing Duran and moving about. He won those rounds with flurries from inside the pocket when being pressured, and standing his ground. When Leonard was moving and using his jab at the beginning of 5 and 6, you're watching what Leonard is doing, but you're not watching what Duran is doing. Duran took his foot off the gas and boxed with him a little to give himself a break. As soon as Leonard landed long, hard hooks in each of those rounds from the outside, Duran put the pressure back on and drove Leonard back into the ropes (where Leonard successfully fought him back). You act like Leonard had a choice of when to box that night... that's not how it went down. Duran was forcing Leonard to fight like that, and rounds 5 and 6 prove my point, not yours.

Ped Salesman, I think Roberto Duran, set Sugar Ray Leonard up, mentally, to go toe to toe with him in the post fight buildup, when Roberto Duran, called Sugar Ray Leonard's wife a whore in Spanish, among other things. Sugar Ray Leonard, admittedly, took Roberto Duran's taunts personally, and vowed to punish him in the ring. In the rematch, after Sugar Ray Leonard realized Roberto Duran played a winning mind game on him, used his political cash cow status to get an immediate rematch, maybe six months later in Montreal at one of the stadiums built for the Olympics if my memory serves me correct, and did nothing but box Roberto Duran to an easy win. Roberto Duran, seeing he couldn't force Sugar Ray Leonard to box toe-to-toe, became frustrated (even motioned him to come forward..lol), and "no mas" became a household term. Lol.

[Weebler I]

Agree Cortez was against Ricky all night. Cortez is the worst ref out there by far.

****-on, there is no way he was neutral in that fight, it was clear in his mind who was supposed to win and he made sure it happened just as he did in the Ortiz fight. It's laughable how flo-mos try to justify the actions of this joke ref.

[intoccabile]

Ped Salesman, I think Roberto Duran, set Sugar Ray Leonard up, mentally, to go toe to toe with him in the post fight buildup, when Roberto Duran, called Sugar Ray Leonard's wife a whore in Spanish, among other things. Sugar Ray Leonard, admittedly, took Roberto Duran's taunts personally, and vowed to punish him in the ring. In the rematch, after Sugar Ray Leonard realized Roberto Duran played a winning mind game on him, used his political cash cow status to get an immediate rematch, maybe six months later in Montreal at one of the stadiums built for the Olympics if my memory serves me correct, and did nothing but box Roberto Duran to an easy win. Roberto Duran, seeing he couldn't force Sugar Ray Leonard to box toe-to-toe, became frustrated (even motioned him to come forward..lol), and "no mas" became a household term. Lol.

Are you two arguing over how Leonard fought Duran? People are blind. Leonard isn't this "dancer" that everyone paints him out to be. Leonard went to war a LOT, and went to war in the first Duran fight.