I was watching Sugar Ray Leonard on Ringside on ESPN Classics

[wpink1]

7:49 Duran rushes Leonard. Leonard falls back to the ropes, and moves laterally to the side, but when he does, Duran throws a hook that landed on Leonard’s body or guard. Either way, Leonard’s lateral movement still wasn’t fast enough to avoid the hook all together.

8:04 Ray shows some beeeeaaaautiful lateral movement (is my check in the mail?), but he still gets tapped to the liver at the end it because Duran turns with him the whole time, and the shot makes him hold near the ropes.

8:44 Ray trying to move laterally and box, but then Duran cuts him off at the ropes, forcing Ray into a flurry just so he can put off some of that pressure and move out of there.



0:39 Slow motion of the last flurry where Ray was moving to the side. Leonard got the better of it at the end, but watch two things:
1. Duran’s knees and how close they are to Leonard’s. Duran is way too close to get away from because he has fast legs himself. And Ray had been moving laterally just before this and still couldn’t get away.
2. Duran using hooks and widening his stance to keep Leonard from moving laterally. Leonard had to hit him with a clean hook to get away.

2:22 It’s not “feeling out” (as you claim) if they’ve already had crazy ass exchanges earlier in the fight lol. Leonard tried boxing Duran for a change, and Duran OUT-boxed him back. They were both jabbing and moving laterally. Duran used a jab to distract Ray, meanwhile sneaking his left foot closer and threw a right hand, missing ray with it, but putting him in perfect position to throw a shorter hook that Leonard didn’t expect from that distance, and almost put him on the floor. That’s how Duran out-boxed taller opponents with his short lightweight reach later in his career. Leonard didn’t see that in time to move to the side.

9:53 Leonard tried to back and move laterally to his right, but Duran stopped him from doing that with a right hook. Ray ended up holding to stop the exchange for a second.


I’ll stop here for now. Mail me the keys to your house, and I’ll comb through the rest of the fight for you.

will someone tell this idiot the difference between lateral movment like ray did vs duran 2, daveyk boy green, hearns 1, olympics, hagler first 4 rounds... Jesus you have no idea what your arguing about. Even the announcer on the vid you sent, outline " ray is not dancing coming str8 at duran etc starting at 7;32 mark" Man your trying to save face. This is not lateral movement. Its just simply stephing back from a punch and trying to set duran up off the jab at first. Maybe we need to send you tapes of ray showing lateral movement.

Compare any of those fights(i listed below to leonard duran 1) especially duran2 - you will so no lateral movement. None. Leonard simply in the middle of the ring. He never got the ring cut off. You must never have boxed. Leonard never tried to provided angles etc. Just compare leonard vs duran 2, haggler, hearns, green.

What duran did do was simply back ray up. That is true. Leonard fought straight ahead, no side to side movment. None. Never on his toes. Never. Duran pressed the issue , leonard tried to fight him on durans terms the first fight lost a very close fight. 2nd fight duran tried to come in, was not able to make ray fight his fight, got beat, accept it. and yes no 1000 payment as you have shown exactly what i indicated no lateral movement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhX72YHFGFs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yywrt2TCNKw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGbP1lwLYSE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHM7zrmm4_U

Now

[wpink1]

Whether it was underestimating or not being prepared for Duran's style is debatable, but Ray was definitely prepared for the second fight.

underestimated Duran who was 71-1 28 year old going into this fight. Wow. Maybe again I need to school you. Leonard was caught on tape discussing with jackie gleason just how hard of fight it would be vs duran at durans training gym. Dundee knew duran from ages ago and new that duran would be a beast. Now they did think that ray could get him out via body then to the head and that Duran was not the beast at welter he was, but duran the fight b4 vs carlos palimino showed signes of greatness.

It was simply the fact that Leonard did not employ his greatest assets the first fight.

[wpink1]

Sure I think Floyd could beat Ray if they fought. Floyd is a elite fighter, just like Ray. All Floyd has to do is out box Ray just like he does every other fighter. Floyd does not have to do anything magical. Just be Floyd. I believe Floyd is a more cerebral technical fighter than Ray, plus Floyd has faster hands and the better defense. In my opinion, Ray's best attributes was his mind, will and toughness. Ray could box, but I thought he was a better brawler/stalker. I do not think Ray could outbox Floyd. Ray would come forward and that is why would lose. He would get out-boxed.

Easy fight for Ray vs Money. First off Ray had a better jab than Mayweather ever saw with more reach. Just look at how much problem he had vs dlh nab when dlh was not winded. Vs Ray Mayweather would have to get inside and get ih harms way as now for the first time in his life money would have to deal with a jab, and speed combined against a guy that has reach. Changes the game, ask peak mosley vs forrest, even ray vs hearns. Reach neutralizes speed if a jab and timing is employed. Wonder why mayweather never mentioned paul williams name, nor really wanted to fight margorito. Mayweather style is not to fight a inside fight, which he can do when called upon, but not vs a leoanrd.

Secondly - Ray will not be winded like mosley or Dlh were. during the 1st 7 rounds money did not do anything andyes the jab was effective. it was starign round 8 when dlh was visably winded that money took over.

3rdly - you all name money as this great great fighter but could you imagine ray leonard fighting the quality of fighters money has faced. OMG, it would be all time embarrassing. 39 year old mosley, 36 year old dlh, cotto who had been beaten soundly several times and is not on the level of a SRl, etc. What great fighter at welter that was peak welter has mayweather ever beat? And we are going to automatically assume based of of what that he will up the ante vs a totally new class of quality than what he has faced.

4thly - If you know boxing you do come foward and be aggressive behind a jab. Ray did that vs the shoulder roll effectively vs mayweather sr. Now ray did not just come forward when he faced a great counter puncher in Benetiz did he. So not sure if you forgot these things. Benetiz at the time was 38-0-1 two time two division champ.. ray beat him dropped him twice in his first championship fight and did not truly become aggressive was the calculated aggressor.

finally. Eveyrthing mayweather does would be nullified by leonard except for 2 things, He would when playing defense make leonard miss, heis that good defensively, and at times he would land that right hand lead. But, i know we dont think the pot shot right hands would do anythign to offset a peak ray leonard, i know we saw leonard handle rights from duran, and hearns, hagler etc.. and not blink an eye... We think powder puff punching mayweather at welter gonna hurt ray who never ever saw the deck until he came from retirement. hmmmm. Also, you have to get in to punching range to land. Vs other fighters mayweather has a decided speed advantage and reach advantage... Vs ray he does not have this advantage. He would have to get himself in reach of ray who had the complete arsenal to hit him with and he would get hit and often if he came to fight. This is not him fighting dlh who had no right hand so mayweather could lay back and just watch for the left hook and wait for him to tire out. Totally different fight. He would be made to fight and fight the entire night, vs a fighter that has shown vs much better quality at welter to get it done vs every style even the niht he lost, no way Mayweather survives a toe to toe battle with duran who is 100 tiems the fighter Castillo was who gave peak maywather troubles.

[PED Salesman]

will someone tell this idiot the difference between lateral movment like ray did vs duran 2, daveyk boy green, hearns 1, olympics, hagler first 4 rounds... Jesus you have no idea what your arguing about. Even the announcer on the vid you sent, outline " ray is not dancing coming str8 at duran etc starting at 7;32 mark" Man your trying to save face. This is not lateral movement. Its just simply stephing back from a punch and trying to set duran up off the jab at first. Maybe we need to send you tapes of ray showing lateral movement.

Compare any of those fights(i listed below to leonard duran 1) especially duran2 - you will so no lateral movement. None. Leonard simply in the middle of the ring. He never got the ring cut off. You must never have boxed. Leonard never tried to provided angles etc. Just compare leonard vs duran 2, haggler, hearns, green.

What duran did do was simply back ray up. That is true. Leonard fought straight ahead, no side to side movment. None. Never on his toes. Never. Duran pressed the issue , leonard tried to fight him on durans terms the first fight lost a very close fight. 2nd fight duran tried to come in, was not able to make ray fight his fight, got beat, accept it. and yes no 1000 payment as you have shown exactly what i indicated no lateral movement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhX72YHFGFs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yywrt2TCNKw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGbP1lwLYSE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHM7zrmm4_U

Now

I've boxed.

Now tell me which one of those other fighters rushed Leonard as fast as Duran did their first fight? Leonard knew he couldn't do that to Duran that night. His strategy was the right one, and he could have won if a few more exchanges went his way.

If he did what you and the dumb announcers (who never boxed themselves) wanted him to do, he would have really gotten killed.

Leonard didn't have room to dance, because Duran was cutting off his dance floor all night. Being chased into the ropes and covering up didn't exactly restore Juanita Leonard's honor lol, so I'm sure Leonard would have danced if he could before turning it on late in the fight.

[wpink1]

I've boxed.

Now tell me which one of those other fighters rushed Leonard as fast as Duran did their first fight? Leonard knew he couldn't do that to Duran that night. His strategy was the right one, and he could have won if a few more exchanges went his way.

If he did what you and the dumb announcers (who never boxed themselves) wanted him to do, he would have really gotten killed.

Leonard didn't have room to dance, because Duran was cutting off his dance floor all night. Being chased into the ropes and covering up didn't exactly restore Juanita Leonard's honor lol, so I'm sure Leonard would have danced if he could before turning it on late in the fight.

Dude your backing my point, he did not dance. Not at all. it does not take a superstar to start out the round on your toes. Ray never did that. Ray always in every fight, does a little trick that boxers know that mayweather and others do, to get room, that is when the referee breaks, you step behind the referee and out into the middle of the ring, Ray never did that, he did that all through the olympics and would do it non stop as a professional. When on the ropes instead and spinning or attempting to spin, and actually languished on the ropes and waved duran in. repeatedly. When off the ropes, he did not step into the middle of the ring to move, he fired back and duran and elected to war. Dudue your sounding dumber and dumber.


Again you in over your head. NO one said duran did not rush in, no one says duran was not great the night, no one said duran did not win that night, we and the we is for every single person besides you that saw the fight including duran himself and SRL, that ray elected to war and did not dance. Duran himself knew that if he got under Ray skin, he could win the mind game and Ray may elect to fight instead of box, which is exaclty what Ray did.

Again you have not yet showed is when Ray 'TRIED to dance but duran stopped him" Accordimg you you know what was in ray's mind moreso than what ray said himself and the annoucners and every single journalist that ever covered the fight. You dead wrong on this on. I do think you sound like you know boxing, but on this one point you just refuse to undersand and admit that duran simply beat ray that night and the ray that showed up came to war, not box and the ray that showed up in the 2nd fight came to box not war, and the results were different. regardless of how you try unsuccessfully to prove a point that not one person agrees with you on and your own video you posted validates my point video and audio........

[Frank Ducketts]

Dude your backing my point, he did not dance. Not at all. it does not take a superstar to start out the round on your toes. Ray never did that. Ray always in every fight, does a little trick that boxers know that mayweather and others do, to get room, that is when the referee breaks, you step behind the referee and out into the middle of the ring, Ray never did that, he did that all through the olympics and would do it non stop as a professional. When on the ropes instead and spinning or attempting to spin, and actually languished on the ropes and waved duran in. repeatedly. When off the ropes, he did not step into the middle of the ring to move, he fired back and duran and elected to war. Dudue your sounding dumber and dumber.


Again you in over your head. NO one said duran did not rush in, no one says duran was not great the night, no one said duran did not win that night, we and the we is for every single person besides you that saw the fight including duran himself and SRL, that ray elected to war and did not dance. Duran himself knew that if he got under Ray skin, he could win the mind game and Ray may elect to fight instead of box, which is exaclty what Ray did.

Again you have not yet showed is when Ray 'TRIED to dance but duran stopped him" Accordimg you you know what was in ray's mind moreso than what ray said himself and the annoucners and every single journalist that ever covered the fight. You dead wrong on this on. I do think you sound like you know boxing, but on this one point you just refuse to undersand and admit that duran simply beat ray that night and the ray that showed up came to war, not box and the ray that showed up in the 2nd fight came to box not war, and the results were different. regardless of how you try unsuccessfully to prove a point that not one person agrees with you on and your own video you posted validates my point video and audio........

Good post. Nobody is wrong. We are all making great points.

Where some differ is giving Duran props for the big win in fight, and taking credit away from Sugar for the rematch. Duran didn't change up his game, and now Duran was in a hostile environment.

[Syf]

Floyd could beat SRL, but he would have to fight the fight of his life. He has the skills to outtime a just as/or faster Leanard. He has the defense to weather those deadly combos. I believe he is a slightly smarter fighter than SRL. SRL has a strength and possible speed advantage but what offsets speed is timing, and MW has some of the best timing of any that have ever laced 'em up, and no fighter MW has faced that boasted of being "stronger" was successful. Mw is just as comfortable being the smaller guy as he is being the bigger.

Just got to say people saying Ray "figured out the shoulder roll" because he spanked Floyd's daddy are so off. Floyd is 3000 times better than his daddy, realize that. Floyd also changes his looks to high guard and twitch defense and also simply being first. so SRL would have difficulty finding his target sometimes, and WOULD be countered. Floyd is not an easy out for anyone super feather through welter, all time. People will realize this when he's retired for good.

[Frank Ducketts]

Floyd could beat SRL, but he would have to fight the fight of his life. He has the skills to outtime a just as/or faster Leanard. He has the defense to weather those deadly combos. I believe he is a slightly smarter fighter than SRL. SRL has a strength and possible speed advantage but what offsets speed is timing, and MW has some of the best timing of any that have ever laced 'em up, and no fighter MW has faced that boasted of being "stronger" was successful. Mw is just as comfortable being the smaller guy as he is being the bigger.

Just got to say people saying Ray "figured out the shoulder roll" because he spanked Floyd's daddy are so off. Floyd is 3000 times better than his daddy, realize that. Floyd also changes his looks to high guard and twitch defense and also simply being first. so SRL would have difficulty finding his target sometimes, and WOULD be countered. Floyd is not an easy out for anyone super feather through welter, all time. People will realize this when he's retired for good.

Good post...!

[PED Salesman]

Dude your backing my point, he did not dance. Not at all. it does not take a superstar to start out the round on your toes. Ray never did that. Ray always in every fight, does a little trick that boxers know that mayweather and others do, to get room, that is when the referee breaks, you step behind the referee and out into the middle of the ring, Ray never did that, he did that all through the olympics and would do it non stop as a professional. When on the ropes instead and spinning or attempting to spin, and actually languished on the ropes and waved duran in. repeatedly. When off the ropes, he did not step into the middle of the ring to move, he fired back and duran and elected to war. Dudue your sounding dumber and dumber.


Again you in over your head. NO one said duran did not rush in, no one says duran was not great the night, no one said duran did not win that night, we and the we is for every single person besides you that saw the fight including duran himself and SRL, that ray elected to war and did not dance. Duran himself knew that if he got under Ray skin, he could win the mind game and Ray may elect to fight instead of box, which is exaclty what Ray did.

Again you have not yet showed is when Ray 'TRIED to dance but duran stopped him" Accordimg you you know what was in ray's mind moreso than what ray said himself and the annoucners and every single journalist that ever covered the fight. You dead wrong on this on. I do think you sound like you know boxing, but on this one point you just refuse to undersand and admit that duran simply beat ray that night and the ray that showed up came to war, not box and the ray that showed up in the 2nd fight came to box not war, and the results were different. regardless of how you try unsuccessfully to prove a point that not one person agrees with you on and your own video you posted validates my point video and audio........

Sounds like you're an avid fan, but I'm doubting your technical boxing knowledge based on what you've said. What strategy would you advise for Khan for getting out of the ropes when Peterson was rushing him and pinning him there?