I was watching Sugar Ray Leonard on Ringside on ESPN Classics

[dibzvincent143]

leoanrd vs Mayweather would not be a close fight. People when was the last time Mayweather fought a good fighter with a Jab. Hmmmm DLH, and he was being controlled with that the first 7 rounds and was avoiding the left hook, so he lay on the ropes and tried to smother his shots, and avoid them then whe DLH tired and picked him apart. What in the hell would he do with a peak SRL, who was bigger stronger, faster had a better jab (dropped people with his jab ask Benetiz a all time great) and a jaw out of this world until he came back from retirement...Plus unlike DLH Ray had not only a jab and left hook but he had a great right hand, what DLH did not have.

When was the last time Mayweather fought a great guy who was at his peak at welterwitght. Hmmm never maybe.

when was the last time maywether fought a all time great period that was peak.... Hmmm

When was the last time Mayweather fougght a great or good fighter with reach advantage and was not old. Corrales did not have the reach advantage.

So Mayweather some how fights a top 2-3 welterweight of all time, who is just as fast, has more reach than he has ever faced, faster, better jab, hits harder, has the foot speed how shown the ability to destroy the shoulder roll (his daddy) great jaw, Leonard alwasy had great stamina and would not tire out like dlh ( remember his 15 round war with duran).

Not sure what fighter at 147 you all saw in Peak ray, but Mayweather at 147 would get annilhated, as his entire counter punching and not getting his is based of of not having to deal with a jab, being faster, not dealing with reach advantage. Reach neutralizes speed a jab does too, combine all 3, you have mayweather having to take the fight to Ray leonard, who would welcome this all day long.

This fight at 147 is not close, just like if Ray leonard fought Roy jones at middleweight.

Floyd is simply not his best at 147. If you put this Floyd in with Leonard, he gets KO'd. Now if you took Floyd at his best and put him in with Ray ay his best, same results. Floyd beats most of his opponents with his ring smarts and speed. He would have neither advantage with Ray. Floyd is the better defensive fighter, but Ray by far, is the better offensive fighter. Floyd would have to hope that Ray would try to outbox him, that would be his only chance. I think this fight would be parellel to Leonard vs Benetiz. It would be scientific and a show of skill until Ray realized Floyd couldn't hurt him. Ray ended up walking through Benetiz, and I could see him doing the same to Floyd. Another fight to compare it to would be Floyd vs Zab Judah. Zab matched Floyd speed for speed, dropped him and even had him hurt on the ropes. (It was not called an official knock down because the ref missed the punch but replay clearly shows it.) But, Zab was a front runner, meaning he started off fast but by middle rounds was burned out. Floyd then started breaking him down mentally and physically. When have any fighter in Ray's prime ever broke him down in that manner? Never, and neither would Floyd. If Ray ever got Floyd hurt the way Zab did, he would finish him. Someone please refresh my memory when Leonard, in his prime, hurt an opponent and let him off the hook. Leonard lost to a lightweight...but it was the greatest lightweight of all time. Duran, on that night, would have destroyed Floyd. The problem is, there truly is no comparison between Ray and Floyd. Floyd Mayweather is a hall of famer hands down. Sugar Ray Leonard is a boxing legend. There is a huge difference. Floyd has never faced the type of opponents that Ray has.He's never faced a freak of nature like Hearns. He's never faced 2 viscious KO legends like Duran or Hagler. Who has this man ever beat for anyone to think he belonged in the same ring with Ray??? Truthfully.Who has Floyd beat that Ray wouldn't have obliterated? Hatton? Oscar? Ortiz? Cotto? Really??? Boxing is not the same anymore. Floyd has beat some good fighters of this era, but he has never been in the ring with killers or fighters cut from the cloth of Leonard, Duran, Hagler, and Hearns.If those guys were in his era, Floyd would be 43 and 4. I think Floyd would have caught hell with Camacho and Pryor back in those days. Thats not taking anything away from Floyd, he was just blessed to fight in a weaker generation.

good post......

[Poet682006]

leoanrd vs Mayweather would not be a close fight. People when was the last time Mayweather fought a good fighter with a Jab. Hmmmm DLH, and he was being controlled with that the first 7 rounds and was avoiding the left hook, so he lay on the ropes and tried to smother his shots, and avoid them then whe DLH tired and picked him apart. What in the hell would he do with a peak SRL, who was bigger stronger, faster had a better jab (dropped people with his jab ask Benetiz a all time great) and a jaw out of this world until he came back from retirement...Plus unlike DLH Ray had not only a jab and left hook but he had a great right hand, what DLH did not have.

When was the last time Mayweather fought a great guy who was at his peak at welterwitght. Hmmm never maybe.

when was the last time maywether fought a all time great period that was peak.... Hmmm

When was the last time Mayweather fougght a great or good fighter with reach advantage and was not old. Corrales did not have the reach advantage.

So Mayweather some how fights a top 2-3 welterweight of all time, who is just as fast, has more reach than he has ever faced, faster, better jab, hits harder, has the foot speed how shown the ability to destroy the shoulder roll (his daddy) great jaw, Leonard alwasy had great stamina and would not tire out like dlh ( remember his 15 round war with duran).

Not sure what fighter at 147 you all saw in Peak ray, but Mayweather at 147 would get annilhated, as his entire counter punching and not getting his is based of of not having to deal with a jab, being faster, not dealing with reach advantage. Reach neutralizes speed a jab does too, combine all 3, you have mayweather having to take the fight to Ray leonard, who would welcome this all day long.

This fight at 147 is not close, just like if Ray leonard fought Roy jones at middleweight.

Where have you been pink? :thinking9:

Poet

[djtmal]

one thing i will always say about sugar shane mosley, when he was at the top of the sport, was he went ahead and took on vernon forrest, a natural welterweight, who was all wrong for him stylewise, tall, rangy boxer, with a good jab, and better than average pop in the right hand...fought him 2x...i still wonder, if floyd mayweather jr., will find himself up against a similar challenge, against a fighter of similar caliber to vernon forrest (rip) now that the actual fighter is no longer with us...

[PED Salesman]

you always appear slower when he are lunging or you have to make up more ground to punch vs ray being right in front of him. Leonard gave him angles and lateral movement.

That's my point. During the early rounds of the first fight, Leonard was moving and trying to give him angles and create distance. The problem was Duran was with him the entire time, so Leonard stopped trying to avoid the attacks with footwork and held his ground instead of wasting energy without countering. It was the right thing to do, because Duran was right on him and could have caught him going straight back or with body shots when he was stepping to the side (that was happening early on).

Second fight, it just wasn't the same Duran. Leonard tried moving and it worked this time, so he did it the rest of the fight.

Wasn't it Leonard who refused a third fight for so long? Why would he avoid a third fight if he was confident about that second fight?

[wpink1]

That's my point. During the early rounds of the first fight, Leonard was moving and trying to give him angles and create distance. The problem was Duran was with him the entire time, so Leonard stopped trying to avoid the attacks with footwork and held his ground instead of wasting energy without countering. It was the right thing to do, because Duran was right on him and could have caught him going straight back or with body shots when he was stepping to the side (that was happening early on).

Second fight, it just wasn't the same Duran. Leonard tried moving and it worked this time, so he did it the rest of the fight.

Wasn't it Leonard who refused a third fight for so long? Why would he avoid a third fight if he was confident about that second fight?

What fight was you looking at. Leonard had a game plan to knock Duran out the 1st time. He & Dundee thought Duran could not take body shots, & he outside of the Palimino fight, had 8 fights @ welter & did not look that good. Ray showed no, 0. Zilch lateral movement until the 5th round. Both the 5th & 6th rounds he showed just a little lateral movement& he was able to win both of those rounds. You may need to go back & revisit the tapes

[PED Salesman]

What fight was you looking at. Leonard had a game plan to knock Duran out the 1st time. He & Dundee thought Duran could not take body shots, & he outside of the Palimino fight, had 8 fights @ welter & did not look that good. Ray showed no, 0. Zilch lateral movement until the 5th round. Both the 5th & 6th rounds he showed just a little lateral movement& he was able to win both of those rounds. You may need to go back & revisit the tapes

I can get even more specific than that. Watch the first fight, round 2, the exchange just before Duran hurt Leonard bad with a hook. Leonard was showing lateral movement, making Duran miss, moving his head... beautiful boxing. But guess what, Duran was right there making him miss too and moving laterally himself! When he got hit with a hook, he had to go straight back into the ropes because Duran widened his feet to catch him with hooks in case he stepped to the side.

Trying to box with Duran from longer range got Leonard the worst punishment of the fight. So why would he do that the entire night?

[wpink1]

I can get even more specific than that. Watch the first fight, round 2, the exchange just before Duran hurt Leonard bad with a hook. Leonard was showing lateral movement, making Duran miss, moving his head... beautiful boxing. But guess what, Duran was right there making him miss too and moving laterally himself! When he got hit with a hook, he had to go straight back into the ropes because Duran widened his feet to catch him with hooks in case he stepped to the side.

Trying to box with Duran from longer range got Leonard the worst punishment of the fight. So why would he do that the entire night?

Dude your smoking ..I have seen the fight over 1000 times and i will post a youtube link. Leonard showed no lateral movment in that 1st fight til round 5. None. What your referring to was simply the start of the round, feeling out, jabs etc. Ray got caught with a left hook. You picked out one punch, Ray also got hit again in round 4. After round 4 what happened. Ray became more confident landed punc for punch, and when he boxed duran in rounds 5 and 6, then the 2nd fitht, Duran had no answer.

Maybe you should read the history of the first fight. Ray and Dundee had studied duran for a while. Duran was supposed to move up and fight leoanrd earlier, but he looked bad in first fight at welter, and Leonard then decided to fight Benetiz. After the benitez fight Ray was signed. SIGNED to fight cuevas. However, duran people got this changed, no one knows how, but instead of cuevas it became duran. Ray studied duran and thought he could knock him out, and that because of Dejesus that did not use much lateral movement he could outbox him and that he would be stronger. This is from Rays own words, in a fist full of sugar. Get the book.

Weeks before the fight duran and ray got into a exchange at a press conference where they pushed and damm near came to blows and again when duran flipped off ray and his wife in montreal. Ray wanted to ko duran. Now what many people forget is that in many fights Ray chose to not dance or use lateral movement. He was flat footed vs Beneitz, Kalule, Price etc. Vs duran he tried unsuccessfully to go toe to toe because that was his stated game plan going into the fight.

After the fight he changed styles and no duran was just fine for 2nd fight. Had he won we never would have heard anything. But when he lost the first thing we heard was he said no mas. False. Then that he had cramps false. Duran himself said on page 202 of the hands of stone autobiography, he said "No quiero pelear con el payaso" Meaning I do not want to fight with this clown. No he had cramps nothing, he was simply frusterated, and did not want to ko'd. I dont know about the ko, but he was starting to get hit flush.

I suggest you watch both fights again. I know each round totally. If you claim he was using lateral movement and duran cut off the ring in the first fight, your smoking crack. He was not. the best you can claim is the round startd round two the were feeling each other out, jabs etc... in teh center of the ring, then ray got hit with a short half left hook that backed him and the fifht was on. NO LATERAL MOVEMENT. 7:49 mark of this video. NO lateral movment. Study up bro.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLd_6JDLiT4

[wpink1]

That's my point. During the early rounds of the first fight, Leonard was moving and trying to give him angles and create distance. The problem was Duran was with him the entire time, so Leonard stopped trying to avoid the attacks with footwork and held his ground instead of wasting energy without countering. It was the right thing to do, because Duran was right on him and could have caught him going straight back or with body shots when he was stepping to the side (that was happening early on).

Second fight, it just wasn't the same Duran. Leonard tried moving and it worked this time, so he did it the rest of the fight.

Wasn't it Leonard who refused a third fight for so long? Why would he avoid a third fight if he was confident about that second fight?

Just lame excuses. Look at the difference in the lateral movement between first fight and 2nd fight, and what ray did when duran tried to tie him up in 2nd fight. Man im really doubting you even saw the fight. Do i need to post the youtube links on here for you. Totally different fighters in Ray the first fight. First fight ray just languished on the ropes ready to fight with his backs on the ropes, send time duran would rush in and get countered then ray would either not be there due to lateral movement or he would tie him and spin or would counter repeatedly and spin off and get back into the center of the ring. Only a couple ot times in the 2nd fight did ray stay on the ropes. Man look at the fights. Look closley at how ray would move back and forth and how duran would try to cut off the ring and when he step forward ray would reverse movement the other way. Also, Look at how in the 2nd fight instead of throwing the overhand right hand which a great defensive fighter in duran, he could easily slip ( and he did in the 1st fight) in the 2nd fight ray throw hooks and upper cuts when duran came in, and repeatedly caught duran coming in.

Dude I know ever single Ray leonard fight inside out. Your over your head. I studied the history of the duran and leonard fight. Did you know Ray had a serious flu before the first fight, and was stuck in New york for a while and there was concerns that he would not make it. This allowed Duran time to get the crowd a crowd that Leonard was fond of due to where he won his gold medal,, but duran was up there with the crowd a week before and fight night Duran had just as many fans if not more, and this was new to Ray.

Study the fight bro.

[Russian Crushin]

I don't think there's any significant size difference. Leonard fought in an era of same day weigh-ins. I'm quite sure that Floyd weighs about the same as Leonard by fight-time.

People missed this obvious point.

[SkillspayBills]

Unbelievable you are carrying that excuse with you all these years later. As a matter of fact, its sad.

Lol I thought I would be the only one who realized this. He had Hatton winning before the stoppage as well.