Has Froch surpassed Calzaghe's achievements?

[RichCCFC]

With Richard Olsen as trainer (who's most sophisticated advice is "punch more, punch harder, just keep punching him")

Kessler was unable to adapt in that fight because he had a loser drunk in his corner (and I can verify that in person). Just give him a decent trainer like Jimmy Montoya and the Calzaghe fight would look quite different.

trainers don't find for fighters, wouldn't make a single difference

[RichCCFC]

Yes, I get the sentiment, but sentiment doesn't equal a good record. Froch is amazing, I like him more, he has taken on a better body of opposition in his last eight fights, but overall it simply doesn't make his accomplishments better altogether.

You can talk about Calzacky not fighting such and such in his prime or whatever, but overall he fought a decent set of champs etc and had a great career. Froch is a warrior through and through but overall he just wasn't as good. People of forget, of course, about guys like Robin Reid, Woodhall, Brewer etc, who would be up in the mix as champions right now too. It's easy to forget that Calzachy didn't just beat Lacy, Kessler, Bopkins and Jones. All of Froch's wins are fresh in our memory and they have been at a consistently high level. But, just fighting at a consistently high level doesn't mean you get props for losing still or simply for fighting guys.

Put it this way: Two best guys Froch fought, Kessler and Ward, he lost to. The two best guys Calzacky fought, Bopkins and Kessler, he beat. One common opponent, Kessler, beat Froch and lost to Calzacky.

Before anyone starts bringing up shot fighters, that's fine, just take out Taylor, Johnson and Reid for Froch. You're left with three people he beat, Abraham, Bute, and Pascal who were champions.

Fighting a bunch of ****e in between fighting the top guys and the champions doesn't mean you didn't fight those champions and win. Calzacky fought good champions, as shown below, and all the guys that were champions around his time, bar one or two like Ottke etc. The following list doesn't include guys like top contenders Andre Dirrell, because despite being a good win, he's not a champion and never has been so far. If I was to include him, I'd have to include the top contenders of Calzacky like Sakio Bika, Omar Sheika, David Starie, Juan Carlos Gimenez, Mario Veit etc etc etc. These guys were all title challengers, interim champs etc etc too. Dirrell, despite being talented and a hype job hasn't done **** so far apart from lose to Froch and have a weird DQ win with Abraham. He's beaten one champion, Abraham, so right now he's comparable to someone like Bika or Starie who has one big win too over undefeated Woods. I'm sure he'll become champ at some point, then we can include him. Until then, he's still just a contender.

Calzacky: 2 time, 2 division lineal champion at 168 (Unified/Undisputed) and 175 (Ring). 21 defenses at 168 and 1 defense at 175.
Roy Jones
Bernard Hopkins
Mikkel Kessler
Jeff Lacy
Chris Eubanks
Robin Reid
Richie Woodhall
Charles Brewer
Byron Mitchell

Carl Froch: 3 time champion at 168. 3 title defenses.
Robin Reid
Jermain Taylor
Glen Johnson
Lucian Bute
Jean Pascal
Arthur Abraham

Froch is great, he's current and unafraid of challenges, but he's not better than Calzacky.

great post....

[ghost deini]

i think if calzaghe had fought the kind of comp that froch did he would have taken an L aswell maybe even a couple

losing doesn't make you a bad fighter and with the level that froch has been fighting at you can forgive him for losing a couple

while calzaghe was more dominant and only left his country for two big money fights against older fighters froch has actually traveled and done the business outside of the uk which really counts in his favor when comparing the two

[KickAzz]

C'mon... Froch gets extra points for just actually getting in the ring and fighting tough fights... especially outside the UK...

Calzaghe hiding like a mofo in the UK... no respect

[KickAzz]

Ask your self this ...would Froch go 46-0 against Joe Calzaghe opponents ?
Oh wait we already know the answer is NO

Froch would've won all the fights he lost if the fights were in the UK (like all of calzaghe's fights were minus the RJJ and Hopkins debacles)... so this argument is irrelevant

[KickAzz]

No way. Sure Froch has taken on tough competition, but he failed against both Ward and Kessler. A prime Kessler was completely picked apart by Joe. You look at Froch's resume, his best win was against Jermaine Taylor IMO and that was a gutsy, but lucky victory.
Don't get me wrong, I like and fully respect Froch and his balls to take on anyone in any town, but bluntly he has come short in his real tests. I have never been a believer in Bute also, I think he was overprotected fighter who fought tailored opponents.
When it comes down to everything, Calzaghe would have put a clinic on Froch ala Andre Ward.

In a head to head match up, I have Calzaghe beating Froch... but if your looking at the resume and the level of competition, Froch's resume ****s CAlzaghe's resume in the ass

[RichCCFC]

Froch would've won all the fights he lost if the fights were in the UK (like all of calzaghe's fights were minus the RJJ and Hopkins debacles)... so this argument is irrelevant

^ lol

Ward toyed with Froch.


Kessler was past his prime and still won.

[KickAzz]

i think if calzaghe had fought the kind of comp that froch did he would have taken an L aswell maybe even a couple

losing doesn't make you a bad fighter and with the level that froch has been fighting at you can forgive him for losing a couple

while calzaghe was more dominant and only left his country for two big money fights against older fighters froch has actually traveled and done the business outside of the uk which really counts in his favor when comparing the two

yep... if calzaghe fought the kind of comp froch did, outside the UK like froch did, Calzaghe would not be undefeated

[Allucard]

Calzaghe has a long long list of wins against B level fighters. He has a win over a passed it Eubank ... a close decision against a Hopkins that while by no means shot or anything was still passed his best. Jones doesn't count. The best win on his record is probably kessler ... Lacy is hard enough to judge as he went to ***** after joe destroyed him.

The standard of fighters Froch has fought pi$$es all over the level calzaghe was fighting tbh

This. Bute was on his way to be Calzaghe #2. Only his team wasn't smart enough to see Froch wasn't broken yet. They though Froch was ready for the taking and miscalculated. This line of thought never leads to greatness, the line Froch has taken can very well do that, even if he doesn't have an 0, he's just better.

[KickAzz]

^ lol

Ward toyed with Froch.


Kessler was past his prime and still won.

c'mon.. this is the UK we're talking about