Did Roy Jones start losing at LHW when his competition stepped up?

[-Spinal-]

Roy started losing because he was 35 years old.

Past prime Roy beat Tarver.

Roy had shown signs of decline in his early 30s.

The move up in 25lbs, then dropping down 25lbs didn't help.

[therealpugilist]

Good post!

Hearns was tall and lanky, but he started at WW, and was able to go from LHW to MW and win a title. Moore did it regularly. You could argue that as he weighed 186 on fight night as a LHW, that Jones had grown into a legit LHW. I think he weighed about 193 for the fight with Ruiz, so it was a matter of 7 pounds, hardly extreme.

Jones was still strong enough to beat Tarver in the first fight. Then in the rematch, he had plenty of time to re-adjust to the weight. I think Tarver pushed Jones harder than any opponent he'd faced at LHW and it showed. Good point about Trinidad, Jones had easily become accustomed to making LHW, he was still able to make 170. I think the weight loss figures are grossly exaggerated.

Once again, I'm just asking the question in debate. Jones was obviously older, however he was still ranked P4P number 1, and was a huge favourite going into the fights with Tarver and Johnson. They were arguably better opposition than Jones had previously faced, as they were confident and on winning runs. As opposed to Virgil Hill, who was coming off a gruelling 12 round loss to DM

Johnson made his name of fighting a Jones who was coming off a kayo loss...he wasnt psychologically the same fighter...you could see how worried he was about being hit, Jones was one of the most self-assured fighters in history...he hardly threw any punches in that fight and stayed along the ropes 70% of the time not taking anything away from Johnson but had he fought Jones 2002 or earlier at 175 he would have been facing a confident better version of Jones

Here is a true story for you, alot of people dont understand how hard it is to go up and down in weight and how it affects you.

..my junior year of high school I wrestled in the 140 weight class and walked around at 132 before the season(the captain was at 135 no way i was gonna beat him for the spot, it was my first year) any way I spent that whole season and the rest of the year before next season building myself to get accustomed to wrestling the bigger guys and build up my muscle mass ended up 3rd in my area and made it to state.

My senior year arrives and my coach wants me to drop down to 135 said i would be bigger and stronger than my opponents and I could make the weight easier than my friend who was of similar size so I dropped down...the thing was my natural weight by this point was 145 before the season started and I was only 7% body fat

truth be told I killed myself all season trying to make 135 and in most tournaments they spot you two pounds(137) to wrestle in that class. I was stronger than most my opponents but my stamina wasnt nearly as good as it was the previous year...my complexion was ****ed up my eyes were yellow and my lips were dry the lowest i felt comfortable at was 139, anyway the region championships come along and Im dying to make the weight we reach the scales and I weigh in at 137.2...the only time i ever weighed in naked and still didnt make weight, I was so disappointed and will never forget that

the moral of the story is people dont understand how hard it is to make a particular weight especially if they never had to....5-6 pounds with low body fat is hell on you and you are not the same, consider dude was 35+ doing that, I was a teenager

[PeacefulFury]

At least, you could never take this away from Jones Jr : He wasn't scared to fight anyone.

Even at 35 yrs old, Jones Jr went for history, left his weight class and went up to Heavyweight and won the belt. That by ITSELF is historic and impressive.... hardly any fighter wants to change weightclasses to that extreme the way Jones did.....anyway, Jones, now the heavyweight champion, was called out by Tarver who was not even in his weight class anymore. Roy didn't have to fight a guy who isn't in his weight class. But what did Roy do? He accepted the fight, lost a ton of weight to get back down to -Tarver's weight class-......and went out and beat Tarver. Just stop right here and let that sink in. Where do you see that anymore?

How is this not an all time great boxer? He should have just retired after beating Tarver. 35-36 year old boxer, who put his body through hell and back, a boxer who depends on speed and reflexes... he was bound to finally lose.

I'm not sure how you can ask if he was truly great.... I have Roy in my top 5 all time.

[PeacefulFury]

Roy started losing because he was 35 years old.

Past prime Roy beat Tarver.

Roy had shown signs of decline in his early 30s.

The move up in 25lbs, then dropping down 25lbs didn't help.

Well said. It's amazing how Roy doesn't get enough credit. The man was legendary for the things he did. You hardly never see a boxer want to leave his weightclass to that extreme, and still succeed doing it, and then go back down and win again.

"Ya'll must've forgot"

[SergioMaravilla]

Johnson made his name of fighting a Jones who was coming off a kayo loss...he wasnt psychologically the same fighter...you could see how worried he was about being hit, Jones was one of the most self-assured fighters in history...he hardly threw any punches in that fight and stayed along the ropes 70% of the time not taking anything away from Johnson but had he fought Jones 2002 or earlier at 175 he would have been facing a confident better version of Jones

Here is a true story for you, alot of people dont understand how hard it is to go up and down in weight and how it affects you.

..my junior year of high school I wrestled in the 140 weight class and walked around at 132 before the season(the captain was at 135 no way i was gonna beat him for the spot, it was my first year) any way I spent that whole season and the rest of the year before next season building myself to get accustomed to wrestling the bigger guys and build up my muscle mass ended up 3rd in my area and made it to state.

My senior year arrives and my coach wants me to drop down to 135 said i would be bigger and stronger than my opponents and I could make the weight easier than my friend who was of similar size so I dropped down...the thing was my natural weight by this point was 145 before the season started and I was only 7% body fat

truth be told I killed myself all season trying to make 135 and in most tournaments they spot you two pounds(137) to wrestle in that class. I was stronger than most my opponents but my stamina wasnt nearly as good as it was the previous year...my complexion was ****ed up my eyes were yellow and my lips were dry the lowest i felt comfortable at was 139, anyway the region championships come along and Im dying to make the weight we reach the scales and I weigh in at 137.2...the only time i ever weighed in naked and still didnt make weight, I was so disappointed and will never forget that

the moral of the story is people dont understand how hard it is to make a particular weight especially if they never had to....5-6 pounds with low body fat is hell on you and you are not the same, consider dude was 35+ doing that, I was a teenager

Thanks for your contribution therealpugilist.

I agree that Jones was gunshy and low on confidence when he faced Jones. However, I feel that people don't give Glen the credit he deserves for a great performance that night. He jumped on Jones from the first bell, and didn't give him time to settle. When he gave Jones time and space, Roy demonstrated he still had his hand speed, combinations and foot speed. At that point, Roy had been at LHW for over 18 months, I think he had plenty of time to become accustomed to making 175. Indeed he was 35, but he was an elite athlete with the most expensive nutritionists and personal trainers advising him.

Are you still wrestling today?

[SergioMaravilla]

At least, you could never take this away from Jones Jr : He wasn't scared to fight anyone.

I have to disagree with that statement. After his loss to Tarver, Roy's attitude changed. However, in his prime, there were several fights the public wanted, that Roy didn't make. Like against Eubank, Benn, Michaelczewski, Collins, Nunn, Mclellan, a rematch with Hopkins.

At the time Roy was in his prime, HBO even called him 'Reluctant Roy'

Even at 35 yrs old, Jones Jr went for history, left his weight class and went up to Heavyweight and won the belt. That by ITSELF is historic and impressive.... hardly any fighter wants to change weightclasses to that extreme the way Jones did.....anyway, Jones, now the heavyweight champion, was called out by Tarver who was not even in his weight class anymore. Roy didn't have to fight a guy who isn't in his weight class. But what did Roy do? He accepted the fight, lost a ton of weight to get back down to -Tarver's weight class-......and went out and beat Tarver. Just stop right here and let that sink in. Where do you see that anymore?

How is this not an all time great boxer? He should have just retired after beating Tarver. 35-36 year old boxer, who put his body through hell and back, a boxer who depends on speed and reflexes... he was bound to finally lose.

I'm not sure how you can ask if he was truly great.... I have Roy in my top 5 all time.

He wasn't a Heavyweight champion, it was a paper title that Lennox Lewis vacated, that he won off John Ruiz, a C level fighter at best. If Roy stayed at HW, his mandatory was Vitali Klitschko, could you imagine what Vitali would have done to him!? I think Roy moving back to LHW was the best move. James Toney was a MW, who went to HW, and beat the likes of Holyfield, Ruiz and Rahman.

I pointed out earlier that the weight loss figures are exaggerated, he weighed between 193-199 for Ruiz, and weighed 186 on fight night as a LHW. Other fighters in history had done this multiple times and been strong. He was strong enough to beat Tarver in the first fight, then had more time to re-adjust to LHW for the rematch.

I'm afraid I don't rank Jones nearly as highly as you do, there are too many holes in his record. I didn't realise until someone pointed it out to me that Roy Jones never beat a single lineal, unified or undisputed champion in his whole career.

[IronDanHamza]

In a word; No.

[IMDAZED]

Thanks for your contribution therealpugilist.

I agree that Jones was gunshy and low on confidence when he faced Jones. However, I feel that people don't give Glen the credit he deserves for a great performance that night. He jumped on Jones from the first bell, and didn't give him time to settle. When he gave Jones time and space, Roy demonstrated he still had his hand speed, combinations and foot speed. At that point, Roy had been at LHW for over 18 months, I think he had plenty of time to become accustomed to making 175. Indeed he was 35, but he was an elite athlete with the most expensive nutritionists and personal trainers advising him.

Are you still wrestling today?

He was no longer an elite athlete at 35. He still had fast hands but everything else had slowed immensely. His foot speed was practically non-existent after 2001. Jones had been fighting top ten contenders and champions at LHW from the moment he stepped in the division. He did unify the titles and make 11 defenses. Could Antonio Tarver have beaten Roy Jones in 2000? I doubt it. Heck, he couldn't beat him in 2003. But when you're talking about a four-division champ who had over 50 fights, been in the gym taking punishment since he was four, was well past his prime at 35, had just cut muscle to reach 175, and was coming off the most punishing fight of his career (Tarver I), it's hard to look at that and reason that the step up in class had anything to do with it.

[intoccabile]

The question is perfectly sound, though. He looked like his old self in the fights he won.

[elfag]

While they do exaggerate the amount of weight that he gained, (it was really only 10 pounds rather than 25 pounds or whatever people are claiming), roy does have an excuse.... he was old

Jones didnt start loosing until he was over 35. Its becoming more common for guys to do well in their late 30s but not everyone can do it. Guys like Ali and SRL were shot after 35. Jones hand speed is still good but his reflexes and ability to avoid punches is gone. Hes getting KTFO because he has no defense and is getting hit with shots he would have avoided in his prime.