Did Roy Jones start losing at LHW when his competition stepped up?

[Vadrigar.]

That is the easy response and you may very well be right. But then I see something like Erik Morales v. Danny Garcia. The older fighter clearly lost, but you saw flashes of the talent and skill gap and you could tell how different of a fight it would of been with Morales in his prime. It was somewhat respectable.

Not with Roy. There had to be more to it.

Erik Morales had an iron chin, Roy never had the best of chins.

I gave my three reasons previously.

[hi-five]

Did Roy Jones start losing at LHW when his competition stepped up?
Looking at Jones big LHW names and match ups (only LHW)

McCallum - had recently been beaten by Tiozzo
Griffin - was a novice with no great LHW wins. Dont say Toney who had a terrible SMW and LHW resume and did nothing at LHW
Hill - was coming off a loss to Michalczewski

Tarver - was on a good run and pushed Jones then beat him in the rematch
Johnson - Was on a good run and beat Jones
Tarver - beats Jones again
But Jones then has a run of 3 convincing wins against similar opposition to the Fraziers, Kellys etc and looks just as good.
Calzaghe - On a good run schools Jones
Then Jones has 2 fights at his old level and looked as good as before
Hopkins - now LHW champ beats Jones when he stepped up again

So was Jones a great LHW and just got old, or was he never a great LHW and just exposed when he stepped up

Discuss

To answer your question, you should just see for youself Jones' past fights. You'll clearly see at what part of his career he started losing his reflexes.

[SergioMaravilla]

Why are you being dense? He was 35, had come off a grueling fight himself, had been bouncing up and down in weight and was at the end of a 50 plus fight career. Here you are discrediting his opponents for losing weight and being clearly past their prime but refuse to do the same for Jones himself. Enough already - your facade is thinly veiled.

Hi IMDAZED, there's no need for the hostile tone, it's only a boxing forum. How was Jones at the end of his career? It's 2012 and he's still active, this was in 2003-2004. I'm not saying Jones was in his absolute prime when he faced Tarver or Johnson, however he was far from a shot fighter. Only 6-12 months ago he defeated Ruiz, one of his finest achievements, he looked good in that fight. He was still ranked P4P number 1. The weight loss would have been an issue, however in the Tarver rematch, and Johnson fights he had plenty of time to re-adjust to making LHW.

Toney overrated? That kind of kills your credibility right then and there. I'd take a past-it Hill over an in prime Johnson every day of the week. The Hopkins that Jones fought was still better than Calslaphe on his best day.

Bottom line: You need to find a new sport since it's pretty clear boxing "ain't your thang".

Poet

Toney's SMW resume is terrible. He has a good win over Tim Littles, nothing else stands out. In his prime, he also lost twice to Montell Griffin, drew with Sanderline Williams and lost to Drake Thadzi. I'm not saying Toney wasn't a very good fighter, I just think he's overrated a bit. Furthermore, you have to take into account that Toney had to cut 30 pounds in 3 weeks to make weight to face Jones.

You're not taking into account the point that Johnson was on a good winning run when he faced Jones. Hill was coming off a loss.

Calzaghe was also past his prime when he faced Jones. However, he was still strong, and just at the end of a HOF career. Hopkins, hadn't accomplished anything when he faced Jones, and needed another two attempts to win a vacant world title. I'm not saying Hopkins wasn't a great fighter, but rematching Hopkins and beating him in 2002 would have been an excellent win, beating a young inexperienced Hopkins is a good win.

[Poet682006]

That is the easy response and you may very well be right. But then I see something like Erik Morales v. Danny Garcia. The older fighter clearly lost, but you saw flashes of the talent and skill gap and you could tell how different of a fight it would of been with Morales in his prime. It was somewhat respectable.

Not with Roy. There had to be more to it.

While all fighters are dependent on their reflexes some are more dependent than others. Jones' way of fighting was predicated on his speed and reflexes while Morales was more textbook in his technique. When their respective reflexes went Morales had technique to fall back on to squeeze out a few more years of semi-competiveness while Jones did not.

Poet

[Poet682006]

Why are you being dense? He was 35, had come off a grueling fight himself, had been bouncing up and down in weight and was at the end of a 50 plus fight career. Here you are discrediting his opponents for losing weight and being clearly past their prime but refuse to do the same for Jones himself. Enough already - your facade is thinly veiled.

Do you get the feeling that we're being trolled? I'm starting to think along those lines..... :thinking9:

Poet

[IMDAZED]

Hi IMDAZED, there's no need for the hostile tone, it's only a boxing forum. How was Jones at the end of his career? It's 2012 and he's still active, this was in 2003-2004. I'm not saying Jones was in his absolute prime when he faced Tarver or Johnson, however he was far from a shot fighter. Only 6-12 months ago he defeated Ruiz, one of his finest achievements, he looked good in that fight. He was still ranked P4P number 1. The weight loss would have been an issue, however in the Tarver rematch, and Johnson fights he had plenty of time to re-adjust to making LHW.

Him being active today is so irrelevant you have to be completely obtuse to bring it up. Evander Holyfield is still active and he hasn't been in his prime since Napster was out. Second, moving up to heavyweight and fighting much, much slower fighters helped mask how much Jones had slowed himself. He was 35, 50 fights in and well past his prime at that point. Whether he was considered pound for pound or not.

Toney's SMW resume is terrible. He has a good win over Tim Littles, nothing else stands out. In his prime, he also lost twice to Montell Griffin, drew with Sanderline Williams and lost to Drake Thadzi. I'm not saying Toney wasn't a very good fighter, I just think he's overrated a bit. Furthermore, you have to take into account that Toney had to cut 30 pounds in 3 weeks to make weight to face Jones.

Overrated as compared to whom? Overrated in what sense? As in, he's not an ATG? What are you saying?

You're not taking into account the point that Johnson was on a good winning run when he faced Jones. Hill was coming off a loss.

So? Who did Johnson beat during that run? Were they better than Micalcewzki? BTW, I love how you like to point out that Toney needed to cut weight but don't point out that Hill had toe issues that limited his mobility versus Dariusz and he had to have foot surgery after the fight. No excuse though, right? Selective, I see.

Calzaghe was also past his prime when he faced Jones. However, he was still strong, and just at the end of a HOF career. Hopkins, hadn't accomplished anything when he faced Jones, and needed another two attempts to win a vacant world title. I'm not saying Hopkins wasn't a great fighter, but rematching Hopkins and beating him in 2002 would have been an excellent win, beating a young inexperienced Hopkins is a good win.

Jones wasn't past his prime when he faced Calzaghe, he was shot. Second, Jones was inexperienced when he fought Hopkins as well. Third, to say that Hopkins needed two more tries to win the title shows you have NO CLUE WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. Tell me something - did you watch ANY of his fights against Segundo Mercado?

[Vadrigar.]

Do you get the feeling that we're being trolled? I'm starting to think along those lines..... :thinking9:

Poet

"How was Jones at the end of his career? It's 2012 and he's still active, this was in 2003-2004."

After reading this I know we're being trolled. Anyone can see it.

[Poet682006]

"How was Jones at the end of his career? It's 2012 and he's still active, this was in 2003-2004."

After reading this I know we're being trolled. Anyone can see it.

Yeah, it may be early and I might not have imbibed enough coffee yet but my "troll detector" isn't COMPLETELY shut down ffs.

Poet

[IMDAZED]

Yeah, it may be early and I might not have imbibed enough coffee yet but my "troll detector" isn't COMPLETELY shut down ffs.

Poet

I'm waiting for the next reply. That'll tell us whether or not we should let this thread die with the threadstarter.

[LHK]

Danny Garcia? Compare that to Antonio Tarver. Or Joe Calzaghe.

So the aren't overrated then? Because I have seen a lot of that in this thread. Well, they weren't ever that good, but good enough to smack Roy around late in his career, which is relative because he is still fighting, though to be fair he obviously shouldn't.

While all fighters are dependent on their reflexes some are more dependent than others. Jones' way of fighting was predicated on his speed and reflexes while Morales was more textbook in his technique. When their respective reflexes went Morales had technique to fall back on to squeeze out a few more years of semi-competiveness while Jones did not.

Poet

True, which makes me question Roy's true place in boxing lore. Well that and his competition. Personally, I will take the the likes of Morales, Barrera and JJM well ahead of Roy even if they didn't win a "HW title". And that is just the tip of the iceberg imo.