So who did Joe Calzaghe duck?

[Toffee]

"Duck" is massively overused on here. For some reason it seems to mean "I didn't get the fight that I wanted".

To me, the fight needs to make sense to all parties and you still ditch it because you don't think you can beat the guy.

An example might be if Wilder chose to lose his belt rather than fight Joshua or an ordered rematch with Fury. That would be worthy of the 'duck' title.

Most 'ducks' just make too much sense to be called 'ducks'.

[Guest]

Froch was the WBC Mandatory for Calzaghe when he vacated the belt so he was on the cusp of World Level at the time.

Don't particularly blame him for taking more money to fight Hopkins but, just saying.

Also don't see how Pavlik is speculation. Pavlik and Shot Roy Jones were on the table he and he fought shot Roy instead.

But Froch's rise was just due to a shallow division... at the time he was 23-0, but completely untested against any serious opposition. The best name on his record was probably a shot-to-shit Robin Reid. (Who nearly KO'd him).

When I said "world level", I wasn't really talking about his ranking position, more whether he'd shown he belonged there. He hadn't even fought anyone at European level, let alone world.. he was pretty much untested.


As for Pavlik, I remember the calls for Joe to fight him when he was two divisions above him. Only NSB would call it a duck... they'd probably slate him for not fighting Mayweather. (And I'd like to do that poll to see how many would have Mayweather winning. )

[IronDanHamza]

But Froch's rise was just due to a shallow division... at the time he was 23-0, but completely untested against any serious opposition. The best name on his record was probably a shot-to-shit Robin Reid. (Who nearly KO'd him).

When I said "world level", I wasn't really talking about his ranking position, more whether he'd shown he belonged there. He hadn't even fought anyone at European level, let alone world.. he was pretty much untested.


As for Pavlik, I remember the calls for Joe to fight him when he was two divisions above him. Only NSB would call it a duck... they'd probably slate him for not fighting Mayweather. (And I'd like to do that poll to see how many would have Mayweather winning. )

Yeah like I said I don't blame Calzaghe for that because better fights such as Hopkins was on the table for bigger money. But let's not act like Froch was a british level fighter. He was WBC mandatory and Calzaghe vacated when the mandatory was ordered.

As for Pavlik, that's a fight that the public wanted. Right or wrong. 2 weight classes lower yes but he was consideres dangerous at the time. So much so the bookies favoured him to knock Hopkins out. Calzaghe fought Roy instead which was a pathetic choice on all levels.

[Hitchslap1]

Calzaghe was a notorious ducked. He held the WBO title hostage for NINE years beating bums in Cardiff.

[Armchairhero]

Sven Ottke

also,people wanted him to fight Pavlik,Joe chose deadshot RJJ

Ha, Sven Ottke... the most protected home cooked fighter in history, he wasn’t in joes league

[DreamFighter]

If you got a title that is unrecognised and that noone therefore wants, then its difficult to be ducked.

A lot of people think that he ducked Echols Tate Hopkins first time Jones etc etc etc s add 10 other fighters but there was no fight booked for any of them - Warren was just using their name to sell Joe, whilst Joe fought another bum. Thats why Joe never faced a name until he was about to quit, because he never arranged to face one.

Noone pretends that Joshua and Wilder are ducking E. Rrustem, the WBF champ. Its just simply noone has heard him or recognised him as champ - this is the same situation Joe was in back then. Wilder probably laughs at the WBF, as did serious boxers laufgh at WBO and IBO back in joes time.


Note that as soon as Joe won a recognised title, he dumped it, everytime. He didnt want a part in defending against top guys.

the only real case for joe ducking came at the end when he ducked loads of guys serially to face old men, because he didnt want to pick up losses.

[Guest]

Yeah like I said I don't blame Calzaghe for that because better fights such as Hopkins was on the table for bigger money. But let's not act like Froch was a british level fighter. He was WBC mandatory and Calzaghe vacated when the mandatory was ordered.

But that was purely based on position picked up over a 23-0 record against nobodies. He was an unknown quantity in terms of what level he was at. Yes, he was RANKED in the world, but in terms of world class fighters he'd fought, who was there? No one. Until he beat Pascal/Taylor, there was no way of knowing he'd be able to hang in at that level.

Put it this way.... if Froch had fought Calzaghe in 2008 - at a time when 90% of Fat Yankistanians hadn't heard of him - what would people have said about the win?

Would it have been:

A. Good win, Joe, you beat a world-ranked contender;

or B. Who the **** was that guy anyways? I just looked at his freakin' record, and I don't know how he was ranked in the world as he'd fought NO ONE except eurotrash. Anyways, I could care less."

As for Pavlik, that's a fight that the public wanted. Right or wrong. 2 weight classes lower yes but he was consideres dangerous at the time. So much so the bookies favoured him to knock Hopkins out. Calzaghe fought Roy instead which was a pathetic choice on all levels.

I can buy him taking on a completely shot Royston Jones as a glorified exhibition (which embarrassingly turned into a fight for his life for a couple of rounds*) just for the cash.... but nothing else. You might be right about how the bookies saw Moby, but I certain made a few £££ when I put my cash on Bore Hard.



*
ROUND ONE - That's where the drama starts!
ROUND TWO - Fuck it, I'll just let you easily UD me after that, shall I? I'm shot to shit.

[DreamFighter]

But that was purely based on position picked up over a 23-0 record against nobodies.

no, it was over beating top world class Pascal. Beating prime pascal is not an unknown quantity.

lets in comparison look at joes previous victims, his usual diet before kessler -

bika - a SMW novice
manfredo - a tv show "athlete"
lacy - half the man Pascal was.
ashira - a career welter/middle with no title pedigree
salem -zero title success zero contention
Mario Veit - infamous for bieng a nobody
Myger - a nobody who fought noone all his life
Mithell - a retiring former champ looking for a paycheck who was waved off on his feet by a cardiff ref immediately after dropping joe, and joe refused a rematch
Pudwill, Jiminez - nobodies
Brewer - a three defence champ
woodhall - crippled retiree looking for apaycheck who should never have been in the ring
Sheika - zero pedigree
in fact all the otehrs apart from reid had zero pedigree

SO... are you saying Joe was ok to not froch for 40 minutes.... when Froch had just taken a title level scalp.
BUT he was OK TO FIGHT 10 YEARS OF GUYS WAY BELOW THAT?




HAHAHA! What a joke.

[DreamFighter]

But that was purely based on position picked up over a 23-0 record against nobodies. He was an unknown quantity in terms of what le
Put it this way.... if Froch had fought Calzaghe in 2008 - at a time when 90% of Fat Yankistanians hadn't heard of him - what would people have said about the win?.

it would be his 2nd elite win IF he had won, thats double the elite wins joe had.

HAHAHAHA.

[Guest]

SO... are you saying Joe was ok to not froch for 40 minutes.... when Froch had just taken a title level scalp.
BUT he was OK TO FIGHT 10 YEARS OF GUYS WAY BELOW THAT?




HAHAHA! What a joke.

No, kid. It's not a "joke", because that's NOT what I was saying.

Here, from the previous page, the specific timeline:

People like to confuse times here, particularly as both seem so "recent". But when Froch was calling out Calzaghe, he was just another UK boxer who hadn't made it to European level, let alone world. Okay, we found out Froch could hang there, but we didn't know that at the time.
Although in 2008 Froch went through Pascal-Taylor-Dirrell, when Joe Calzaghe retired Carl's latest opponent was Albert Rybacki.