Prime 147 Shane Vs Prime 147 Floyd

[4Corners]

They all rank about the same IMO, Holiday isn't markedly better like IronD is acting.

Holiday was the best fighter Shane beat at 135, hands down. Leija and Molina were solid wins/defenses, and the rest were crap. Holiday was in his prime/unbeaten, and definitely did the best against Shane at out the 3 mentioned (Holiday, Leija, and Molina). Shane doesn't have THAT great of a 135 resume, though he was damn good there. Floyd just beating Jose Louis Castillo, the best LW if his era, was probably better than Shane beating Holiday, Leija, and Molina. Or at least close.

[IronDanHamza]

Same could be said for Floyd when he fought Castillo compared to say, N'dou. Fighters aren't always spectacular and I don't think Mosley looked as bad as you're making it out to be.

That would be because Castillo is a very good fighter and Philip N'Dou is ****.

Mosley didn't look bad, per se, against Holiday. He won the fight and won it clearly.

But, he looked visibly worse than every other fight he had at 135 and it's no coincidence that he's pretty much the only good fighter he fought there.

[4Corners]

Same could be said for Floyd when he fought Castillo compared to say, N'dou. Fighters aren't always spectacular and I don't think Mosley looked as bad as you're making it out to be.

Castillo > Holiday though, anyday of the week. Castillo beat Bazan, Johnston, Lazcano, Casamayor, Diaz, and Corrales.

[IronDanHamza]

Holiday was the best fighter Shane beat at 135, hands down. Leija and Molina were solid wins/defenses, and the rest were crap. Holiday was in his prime/unbeaten, and definitely did the best against Shane at out the 3 mentioned (Holiday, Leija, and Molina). Shane doesn't have THAT great of a 135 resume, though he was damn good there. Floyd just beating Jose Louis Castillo, the best LW if his era, was probably better than Shane beating Holiday, Leija, and Molina. Or at least close.

Leija and Molina were barely even solid defenses. Both were well past it at that point.

Shane doesn't have that good a resume at 135? He has a pathetic resume at 135. Utterly awful.

Mayweather beating Castillo at LW is absolutely and utterly superior to all of Mosley's title defenses at LW put together.

[turbotime]

Castillo > Holiday though, anyday of the week. Castillo beat Bazan, Johnston, Lazcano, Casamayor, Diaz, and Corrales.

Of course. I was just going by that logic, which I don't subscribe to. Fighters have off nights. Floyd against Carlos Hernandez? Floyd against Sosa? Didn't look like a world beater in those ones. And I thought lost pretty clearly in the first JLC bout.

You can do it with any fighter, really.

[DLT]

See, this is the problem with all these fights we talk about with Floyd. He was never that big, he moved up way too fast to chase the Oscar fight so he didnt stay in weight classes long, and its only recently that he's fighting in a more stronger way.

Its hard to compare him because he obviously wasnt at his best at LW when he fought JLC but you could tell by the N'Dou fight he was more comfortable at the weight. However, he wouldve looked 10x better then even that if he had stayed at that weight for 3 more years like he easily couldve and filled out more.

If you talk about Floyd at WW, its still a hard thing just like the other classes. He obviously is far more in his prime in his early WW fights but he's also obviously far more stronger & filled out now but is not in his prime anymore. Basically my point is that unlike all the other fighters we always talk about, we never got to or get to see the full Floyd package except for SFW. Other then that we never get to see him in his prime while also being filled out physically.

We never get to see Floyd at WW with his early years athletic ability but stronger and more filled out like he is now. If we put those 2 together then none of those guys come close to touching him. They all had that going for them but Floyd doesnt. With that being said, he's still a beast who can make up for it. Even with him being filled out now, he's still only coming into the ring at 150 so those guys would have a huge advantage over him.

Even at LW Floyd is only coming in at 138 while Shane was huge. Thats why Shane was able to jump 2 weight classes. Ive always said that Im a Floyd fan but I think he did kinda avoid guys like Margarito & Cotto at WW but it was stritctly a physical thing. I think his team felt that he would win but it was possible there would be problems.

If you talk about a guy like Margarito, him & Floyd arent even in the same stratosphere. Floyd is on a much higher class. No one would ever compare them or talk about a fight being close except for the fact that Margarito was a huge natural WW at the time and Floyd was truly a LW at that time. I think Floyd's people felt that they would kill themselves if Floyd lost to such an inferior fighter strictly because he was too big for Floyd to do anything with. Even if Floyd won he would have to run & pot shot which everyoen would rip him for.

Fast forward to now. Floyd is not fighting guys like Mosley & Cotto because they are old. He's fighting them because he physically feels strong enough to compete with them now. Even though he's only a couple of pounds bigger then before, he's much more comfortable at the weight. I tell people all the time that this version of Flody wouldve fought the prime Cotto & Margarito because he would have no fear of them being able to bully him or overpower him. People overlook that kinda stuff.

The problem now is what I talked about before. Now Floyd has that size & stregnth but he's not in his prime anymore and doesnt have the same legs. We were fortunate enough to witness him with his current mass & strength to go along with his prime legs & quickness. The other guys had all there stuff togetehr. This Floyd wouldve easily fought a prime Cotto & Margarito. No doubt about it. Now if it was this Floyd with his early WW speed & legs then he would run to those fights because those guys would have no chance. Floyd's only downfall was size & power because he moved up too fast

[IronDanHamza]

Of course. I was just going by that logic, which I don't subscribe to. Fighters have off nights. Floyd against Carlos Hernandez? Floyd against Sosa? Didn't look like a world beater in those ones.

You can do it with any fighter, really.

It's a bit different when he's the only good fighter you've faced at the weight.

[4Corners]

Leija and Molina were barely even solid defenses. Both were well past it at that point.

Shane doesn't have that good a resume at 135? He has a pathetic resume at 135. Utterly awful.

Mayweather beating Castillo at LW is absolutely and utterly superior to all of Mosley's title defenses at LW put together.

I agree, that's what I said. People talk about Shane was if dominated all these greats at 135, and the Roy comparison at 175 was awful by another poster.

Shane beat 2-3 guys ranked at 135. Holiday, Leija, and not sure on Molina.

Roy beat like 9-10 guys ranked in the Top 10 at 175 and damn near cleaned out the division. Virgil Hill, Montell Griffin, Lou Del Valle, Reggie Johnson, David Telesco, Eric Harding, Julio Cesar Gonzalez, Clinton Woods, Antonio Tarver, were all Top 10 LHW's when Roy Jones beat them.

[4Corners]

Of course. I was just going by that logic, which I don't subscribe to. Fighters have off nights. Floyd against Carlos Hernandez? Floyd against Sosa? Didn't look like a world beater in those ones. And I thought lost pretty clearly in the first JLC bout.

You can do it with any fighter, really.

I had Floyd losing by a point due to the point deduction, when I watched it live. He didn't look like a world beater in those fights, but he still won wide UD's. And I'm glad you mentioned Sosa. That wasn't THAT bad of a fight at that point. Sosa was a Top 10 LW at the time, and was robbed of a title win over Spadafora. And Carlos Hernandez was a Top SFW contender and would go on to win a title, and fight Morales later on.

But still, all I was saying is that Shane never really beat anyone at 135 aside from Holiday, Leija, and Molina. And Holiday was clearly the best of those 3. Floyd beating Castillo was far and away better than all 3 of those, and the Sosa fight was probably equal to Leija and Molina in terms of quality at that time.

[IronDanHamza]

I agree, that's what I said. People talk about Shane was if dominated all these greats at 135, and the Roy comparison at 175 was awful by another poster.

Shane beat 2-3 guys ranked at 135. Holiday, Leija, and not sure on Molina.

Roy beat like 9-10 guys ranked in the Top 10 at 175 and damn near cleaned out the division. Virgil Hill, Montell Griffin, Lou Del Valle, Reggie Johnson, David Telesco, Eric Harding, Julio Cesar Gonzalez, Clinton Woods, Antonio Tarver, were all Top 10 LHW's when Roy Jones beat them.

Molina wasn't in the Top 10. He'd done literally nothing of note since getting beaten by Oscar in 95.

Leija wasn't in the Top 10 but then creeped in the bottom half of the Top 10 when he beat a 40 year old Azumah Nelson who stopped him in 6 rounds 2 years prior. And a fight before that was stopped by Oscar in 2 Rounds.

Oscar deserves credit for the Leija and Molina wins, IMO. Mosley, does not.

The only legit win Mosley has at 135 is Holiday. That's it, really.