What does lineal champ mean to you?

[Roman Moreno]

With all these titles that we have now. It's so hard to know who the real champion is in the weight-class. This is where lineal comes in IMO. Lineal champion is the real legit champion.

Now lineal champion however doesn't necessary mean best fighter in the division.

[Kagami Taiga]

The absolute best fight was Cotto vs Paul Williams.

Then after Margarito beat Cotto, the best fight was Margarito vs Williams II which actually would have been for the lineage.

I dont think Cotto and Margarito should be rewarded with the lineage for ducking Williams.

either way u look at it, once williams removed himself from the class, he should not have been counted. why he was, doesnt make sense. sure they may have avoided him (i thought u didnt use the word duck, hypocrisy on your part) but he wasnt campaigning at the weight by the time the fight happened. either way u look at it, floyd is pretty much universally considered the lineal champ whether he inherited it (which i felt he did) or he never lost it.

[IronDanHamza]

either way u look at it, once williams removed himself from the class, he should not have been counted. why he was, doesnt make sense. sure they may have avoided him (i thought u didnt use the word duck, hypocrisy on your part) but he wasnt campaigning at the weight by the time the fight happened. either way u look at it, floyd is pretty much universally considered the lineal champ whether he inherited it (which i felt he did) or he never lost it.

But, he intended to return. He made that very clear. The fact he didn't return means nothing in that regard.

I see your point and understand it. But, it's the same as saying Mayweather should be removed from the WW rankings now. Should he? I don't think so.

Williams moving up at that fight ****ed it up, to be honest.

Had he stayed, Cotto-Margarito would not have been for the Lineage and that would be a fact.

[Russian Crushin]

either way u look at it, once williams removed himself from the class, he should not have been counted. why he was, doesnt make sense. sure they may have avoided him (i thought u didnt use the word duck, hypocrisy on your part) but he wasnt campaigning at the weight by the time the fight happened. either way u look at it, floyd is pretty much universally considered the lineal champ whether he inherited it (which i felt he did) or he never lost it.

So when floyd moved up to 154 did he lose his lineage? And will he lose his lineage again since he's moving up?

[Dirk Diggler UK]

either way u look at it, once williams removed himself from the class, he should not have been counted. why he was, doesnt make sense. sure they may have avoided him (i thought u didnt use the word duck, hypocrisy on your part) but he wasnt campaigning at the weight by the time the fight happened. either way u look at it, floyd is pretty much universally considered the lineal champ whether he inherited it (which i felt he did) or he never lost it.

I do use the word duck when its appropriate. Im pretty sure Margarito turned down $4m to fight Williams. That to me is a duck. Williams was forced to move up because the top guys at the weight wouldn't fight him. And as you well know, Im no Williams fan but those are the facts.

He was still campaigning at 147, he just had a fight at 154 in the interim. I think its ridiculous to say that freezing out one guy who has just as big a claim to the title should give the other two the right to fight for it. It just doesn't make any sense.

[Kagami Taiga]

But, he intended to return. He made that very clear. The fact he didn't return means nothing in that regard.

I see your point and understand it. But, it's the same as saying Mayweather should be removed from the WW rankings now. Should he? I don't think so.

Williams moving up at that fight ****ed it up, to be honest.

Had he stayed, Cotto-Margarito would not have been for the Lineage and that would be a fact.

he did say he intended to return, but its not like the guy went one weight class away, he went two, and in fact he never did return.

i dont view it as the same thing as floyd leaving because floyd wasnt fighting at all and came back to the exact same weight class. p will never did either. he simply left and didnt return.

[RINGG]

Somewhere along the line there needs to be an undisputed champion, which today requires an unification. After that no matter how many times the title switches hands the lineal title is passed along, uneffected by the multiple title strippings by the sanctioning bodies. It is a thing of the past really.

[Kagami Taiga]

So when floyd moved up to 154 did he lose his lineage? And will he lose his lineage again since he's moving up?

he should if he stays at 154 irregardless of what he says. i mean seriously, pwill didnt just leave, he went to 160 and he campaigned there, thats 2 weight classes away, who believed he was coming back? i never did.

[F l i c k e r]

No, I don't.

I just find it humorous that you clearly have no idea what the Lineage is and how it works.

Your post made that abundantly clear.

Did the topic say "who is the lineal champ"? No.

It said "what does lineal champ mean to you"?

To me, it's the man who beat the man at the class. We can go back on and on but i figure we'll end up at mayweather. Before Mayweather who was the man at 147. Probably Oscar. And floyd beat oscar, not at 147 but he did beat oscar. he retires soon after. leaving it void.

Then pacquiao comes along and beats oscar. although i think it's a handicap fight, he beat oscar. Then develops a name and by default becomes the man because Floyd left it vacant.

Or you can go to Cotto. Like you guys discussed. But Cotto really didn't do much other than beat Mosley. While Margarito did much but loss to PWill, but PWill really didn't do much besides complain of a lack of opponents. Then Margarito beats Cotto and Mosley beats Margarito.

So if we go Mosley became the man at 147 with Margarito. Then we have to hand it back over to Floyd because he beat Mosley there after. OR give it back to him by default.

Whatever. Either way there is no true definition of it. It's subjective. So the joke is on you for thinking something subjective like this is a hardcore, definite subject.

Just like p4p which is just a theory that a smaller man with a ton of skill, if he was in a larger body with that skill, could beat the larger man. Originating with Ray Robinson. Or at least it's the general consensus.

[Dirk Diggler UK]

he did say he intended to return, but its not like the guy went one weight class away, he went two, and in fact he never did return.

i dont view it as the same thing as floyd leaving because floyd wasnt fighting at all and came back to the exact same weight class. p will never did either. he simply left and didnt return.

You're using hindsight in a situation where there wasn't any hindsight....