All the people that piss and moan about Wladimir Klitschko...

[Barn]

Heavyweight is heavyweight. Fighters should all be judged on the same criteria, and Louis fought plenty of fighters as physically large as Wlad and Vittels.

Yes however you cannot say Wlad fighting a Lightheavyweight/Cruiser is the same as Louis doing so. It's just not the same.

[nomadman]

Yes however you cannot say Wlad fighting a Lightheavyweight/Cruiser is the same as Louis doing so. It's just not the same.

In essence then you're saying H2H Wlad should beat Louis's opponents better based on size advantage alone.

[- Ram Raid -]

I have a hard time seeing Wlad getting KDed by Galento or Braddock or getting nearly KOed by a former middleweight. Louis was skilled and an admirable champion, but not so skilled that a direct comparison between him and Wlad should be seen as "oscene". He had his share of flaws too.

No Doubt. I'm not Bert Sugaring up here and claiming that modern fighters aren't a patch on those of past eras. Schmeling was able to beat Louis precisely because he had some pretty glaring fundamental flaws like you say.

In the fantasy fight tradition if they both squared off in the ring I'd be worried for Louis. Wladimir rarely does much wrong in the ring nowadays, but that's because what he does do is so basic and limited. He dominates because of his physical prowess. He has a PHD in sports science and he's used that knowledge well, he's a supreme athlete.

For me though, he's very one dimensional. Louis had flaws, but he was much more complete fighter. So much so that I personally don't think that Wlad comes close to standing up to a comparison.

[nomadman]

No Doubt. I'm not Bert Sugaring up here and claiming that modern fighters aren't a patch on those of past eras. Schmeling was able to beat Louis precisely because he had some pretty glaring fundamental flaws like you say.

In the fantasy fight tradition if they both squared off in the ring I'd be worried for Louis. Wladimir rarely does much wrong in the ring nowadays, but that's because what he does do is so basic and limited. He dominates because of his physical prowess. He has a PHD in sports science and he's used that knowledge well, he's a supreme athlete.

For me though, he's very one dimensional. Louis had flaws, but he was much more complete fighter. So much so that I personally don't think that Wlad comes close to standing up to a comparison.

Cool, I'd agree with that. But should Wlad be criticised for being one dimensional when he uses that one dimension so well? I can't think of too many HW fighters in history who've refined the art of outside fighting quite so well as Wlad has done, and whilst his punch selection is limited and his inside game is virtually nonexistant he still dominates fighters like they're not even there. Ali never attacked the body. Frazier never boxed on the backfoot. Fighters do what they're good at and, if it's working, stick with it.

[- Ram Raid -]

Cool, I'd agree with that. But should Wlad be criticised for being one dimensional when he uses that one dimension so well? I can't think of too many HW fighters in history who've refined the art of outside fighting quite so well as Wlad has done, and whilst his punch selection is limited and his inside game is virtually nonexistant he still dominates fighters like they're not even there. Ali never attacked the body. Frazier never boxed on the backfoot. Fighters do what they're good at and, if it's working, stick with it.

You make a valid point, and ultimately he shouldn't be criticised for that. He's had to adopt that style to compensate for his weaknesses as a boxer, he's done it very well and it's worked for him. If he can keep it simple and dominate the division in relative safety, he's gonna do that. It's up the opposition to take him out of his comfort zone.

My criticism isn't levelled at Wladimir as such. It's at the regard with which he's increasingly held as a boxer. I simply don't see it. As an athlete, he's changed heavyweight boxing forever. He really has set new standards and I commend him that as well as the way he conducts himself outside the ring.

Like you say, his punch selection is limited and his inside game is virtually non-existent. But, we can't blame the man for fighting in an era so devoid of heavyweight talent.

[AlwaysOnTop]

wladimir would ktfo that flat footed duck joe louis

Ross Purrity couldn't KO Joe's spit bucket...but he KO'd Vlad....

LOL

[nomadman]

You make a valid point, and ultimately he shouldn't be criticised for that. He's had to adopt that style to compensate for his weaknesses as a boxer, he's done it very well and it's worked for him. If he can keep it simple and dominate the division in relative safety, he's gonna do that. It's up the opposition to take him out of his comfort zone.

My criticism isn't levelled at Wladimir as such. It's at the regard with which he's increasingly held as a boxer. I simply don't see it. As an athlete, he's changed heavyweight boxing forever. He really has set new standards and I commend him that as well as the way he conducts himself outside the ring.

Like you say, his punch selection is limited and his inside game is virtually non-existent. But, we can't blame the man for fighting in an era so devoid of heavyweight talent.

Just like Louis shouldn't be blamed for fighting in his spartan era. Saying that, Wlad's lately been dominating the crap out of everyone he's faced, something which Louis didn't always do. Just to make it clear, I'm not hating on Louis. But I too get pretty annoyed when enthusiastic fans call Louis the greatest heavyweight of all time, a perfect fighting machine, the most well rounded champion in history etc. His performances against lesser fighters simply don't reflect that.

[Hitman932]

I find Wlad boring as hell, but both he and his brother are good fighters with Wlad already securing a spot at #16 all time in my opinion with time to move up. And it isn't there fault the division is awful, it just is what it is. But I do think they strategically select opponents based on the better match up for each other. Case in point, Vitaly fighting Sanders instead of Wlad rematching him and Wlad fighting Byrd not once, but twice instead of Vitaly rematching him after both had losses. There are others I speculate about, but these two fights not happening just never sat well with me.

You think they strategically chose those matchups huh?

I guess Wlad fighting Byrd a 2nd time had nothing to do with the fact that Byrd was the IBF Champion and Wlad the mandatory challenger.

So great job on that one. It's not cherry picking when the fight is mandated genius. You also conveniently ignore the fact that at the time of Byd-Wlad Vitali had been retired for 2 full years with no sign of coming back.

And in regard to Corrie Sanders, it's well known by everyone but you that Sanders rejected the idea of fighting Wlad again and relinquished the belt to take a bigger money fight against Vitali.

The fact that both opponents were beaten down so badly is why the other brother never went after a rematch as both guys were essentially done at the point where they lost to a Klitschko.

[JAB5239]

So did Chambers. You still hear people call him a bum and a midget though. Unfair?

Chambers hasn't been lucky enough to have beaten great fighters though regardless of division. Conn had the good fortune of being able to prove he was the at 160 and 175 before moving up and beating known heavyweight contenders at the time. I think its more a situation of recognition and accomplishment in comparison to Chambers.

[AlwaysOnTop]

Just like Louis shouldn't be blamed for fighting in his spartan era. Saying that, Wlad's lately been dominating the crap out of everyone he's faced, something which Louis didn't always do. Just to make it clear, I'm not hating on Louis. But I too get pretty annoyed when enthusiastic fans call Louis the greatest heavyweight of all time, a perfect fighting machine, the most well rounded champion in history etc. His performances against lesser fighters simply don't reflect that.

Wlad's been KTFO before ...in the worse era EVER..

Ross Purrity couldn't beat Joe Louis' trainer...

Lamon Brewster was AWOL from rehab when he KO'd Wlad...

Corey Sanders was a better golfer than he was a fighter...

Say what you will about Joe's comp...i'm sure none of them were drug addicts..

HOW DO YOU MANAGE TO GET KO'D BY A GUY WITH A CRACK-PIPE IN HIS POCKET...???

The Klit Bothers are not great...hell...Chris Byrd WALKED VITALI DOWN and made his QUIT on his stool..!!..Imagine if that was the Brown Bomber instead of Chris Byrd.

"well he had a torn rotator"

Oh really...then he should have fought with one arm...Ali didn't let a broken jaw force him to QUIT....and he had a lot more in front of him than the DREADED Chris Byrd...

CHRIS BYRD......LOL.....