Pac refused to fight this version of Cotto without a CW

[The Big Dunn]

Cotto's stamina issues? Thats a new one.. I would have said it had more to do with Manny hammering him like a tent peg for round after round. Canelo does seem to have some genuine stamina problems and this fight has probably come a little too early for him as he needs fights to rectify that. I fully expect Floyd to win, probably by stoppage around the 10th and I dont believe the weight is a factor at all. I have no problem with the CW, just like the situation with Manny or anyone else fighting at one, never had in all my years following the sport. The only time a CW pissed me off was Leonard v Lalonde, but it wasnt the weight that annoyed me, it was having world titles at two weights on the line. That WAS scandalous.

You shouldnt interpret what I posted to mean cotto lost because of stamina issues. The 2lbs exacerbated it, it didn't cause him to lose.

I don't have a big issue with CW's in non title fights. I detest when a champion has to defend a title below the max of the weight class. Always have and always will. If you don't thats fine.

we agree on srl v lalonde.

I always thought Canelo would give floyd his 1st loss. But I assumed the fight would happen a lil later in both their careers. I expect floyd to win as well given what I saqw from both last fight.

I could see a scenario like the ODH split decision (undeserved IMO) setting up a rematch.

[shade darkar]

because he is the lineal ww champion who was good enough to go up and beat the JMW champ in 2007 and in 2012. just for purposes of bashing floyd and arguing with his fans that post you are acting as if JMW is where he campaigns at.

canelo wants to get paid and floyd knows this. so he used his leverage to make the fight at 152 for the same reasons ODH and Bhop unified MW titles at 157-bigger draws create ideal circumstances for themselves.

leverage? or gaining an advantage?

[HeroBando]

no it wasn't. the only ww he defended title against were clottey and shane (post floyd). he never defended against a top ww-the rest were JMM, bradley moving up in weight. thats why there was no cw (except manny/jmm 3 was 144 i think).

floyd won the jmw title twice-5 yrs apart- at 154. no matter what happens in the canelo fight you can't change or delegitimize that.

the number of weight classes is a function of the time period and manny starting at a smaller weight than floyd.

the bhop odh fight is the last super fight where this happened thats why I went back to it. no matter what you think of odh's title that doesn't change the fact it was a unification fight at a cw lower than top weight.

Clottey and Mosley were both Ring top 5 (way before the GBP Ring purge), that's way better than vast majority of welter titlists in the past 10 years, including Berto, Ortiz, Alexander, Guerrero (if we grant him interim, you know, "4 division, 6x" lol. Plus both were big welters.

You can delegitimize the belt by making it obvious you'll only fight them at full weight if past prime and blown up. That makes it a cherrypicked belt. Imagine Pac fought Paulie for his 1st welter title at 147, bragged about being #1, then asked Cotto to for a CW to unify all titles. That'd be chicken****

The DLH Hopkins CW is half the reason DLH's MW run is considered a joke, the other half being robbery over weakest link. If this is the company you wanna keep...

[The Big Dunn]

leverage? or gaining an advantage?

Both. floyd used his leverage to gain an advantge just like manny did with cotto, odh did with bhop, chavez did with sweet pea etc.

[shade darkar]

Both. floyd used his leverage to gain an advantge just like manny did with cotto, odh did with bhop, chavez did with sweet pea etc.

and at the same time made himself look like a right tool. preaching about catchweights, now he is doing it himself! but what really takes the biscuit is his comments to cotto, "consider him undefeated because he fought at a catchweight, drained, not hydrated"

even you must be able to see that makes him look like a nob.

[The Big Dunn]

Clottey and Mosley were both Ring top 5 (way before the GBP Ring purge), that's way better than vast majority of welter titlists in the past 10 years, including Berto, Ortiz, Alexander, Guerrero (if we grant him interim, you know, "4 division, 6x" lol. Plus both were big welters.

You can delegitimize the belt by making it obvious you'll only fight them at full weight if past prime and blown up. That makes it a cherrypicked belt. Imagine Pac fought Paulie for his 1st welter title at 147, bragged about being #1, then asked Cotto to for a CW to unify all titles. That'd be chicken****

The DLH Hopkins CW is half the reason DLH's MW run is considered a joke, the other half being robbery over weakest link. If this is the company you wanna keep...

clottey was between 5-7 as was shane. niether was top 3. when floyd fought shane-shane was #1. when he fought ghost-ghost was#3. when he fought Ortiz-he was#2 or #3. you can't change that. size doesn't change it either.

you can criticize floyd however you wish. his ww run is far superior to manny's. but this thread isn't about floyd and manny.

again, the ODH/bhop fight was the last time this happened. trying to use the circumstances of that fight to criticize this one makes little sense and is desperate.

[The Big Dunn]

and at the same time made himself look like a right tool. preaching about catchweights, now he is doing it himself! but what really takes the biscuit is his comments to cotto, "consider him undefeated because he fought at a catchweight, drained, not hydrated"

even you must be able to see that makes him look like a nob.

as others have pointed out- is this the first time floyd is hypocritical? of course not. its not haley's comet were dealing with here.

he was trying to elevate cotto to sell that fight while also taking a shot at manny when he said that. and it worked-manny/cotto 1.25 mil manny/floyd 1.5 mil. If posters get on him thats fine-why would I complain given what he said?

if people say floyd's win isn't legit because canelo is 152 after having spent 5 yrs saying 2lbs was no big deal and manny's win was legit, thats on them.

[HeroBando]

clottey was between 5-7 as was shane. niether was top 3. when floyd fought shane-shane was #1. when he fought ghost-ghost was#3. when he fought Ortiz-he was#2 or #3. you can't change that. size doesn't change it either.

you can criticize floyd however you wish. his ww run is far superior to manny's. but this thread isn't about floyd and manny.

again, the ODH/bhop fight was the last time this happened. trying to use the circumstances of that fight to criticize this one makes little sense and is desperate.

They were both top 5, look it up. And none of those guys I listed have 2 top 5 wins, not even close. Hell, Ortiz doesn't have a single top 10 win in any division, at a regulation weight.

You just brought in the the CW title comparison, I replied. Next time be more careful, but that'll take foresight. Chess, not checkers.

And again, your choice of precedent is tells the whole story. I understand you don't have a choice, you'll take whatever sorry precedent you'll find, but don't come crying about Pac title legitimacy again.

[bravestone]

It makes sense the affect can't be determined until the fight actaully happens so I'm generalizing to an extent. In cotto/manny I think it exacerbated Cotto's stamina issues. Thats what I think floyd and his team think will happen as well.

Cotto DOES have stamina issues though. He faded against Mosley, Clottey and it was ultimately his un-doing against Margarito in their first bout.

[bravestone]

They were both top 5, look it up. And none of those guys I listed have 2 top 5 wins, not even close. Hell, Ortiz doesn't have a single top 10 win in any division, at a regulation weight.

You just brought in the the CW title comparison, I replied. Next time be more careful, but that'll take foresight. Chess, not checkers.

And again, your choice of precedent is tells the whole story. I understand you don't have a choice, you'll take whatever sorry precedent you'll find, but don't come crying about Pac title legitimacy again.

Who gives a crap about top 5 in that welterweight division? It's been a wasteland for years.