They arent all necessarily AWESOME just because they DIDNT get a shot...

[ICEMAN JOHN SCULLY]

btw Iceman, I heard you on ATG radio recently. you did pretty good in the boxing trivia.

ha, thanks, but yea that guy got me...I flubbed an EASY question with the Golota-Bowe loss...under the pressure of only a few seconds to answer I pictyured Golota as the winner because he was winning when that low blow came about...Id like a rematch!!

[ICEMAN JOHN SCULLY]

yes, all those guys were good for their time DEFINITELY...as for the films, I havent seen much but u are missing my point. I am saying that if you READ about these guys and then see the few vids there are it doesnt match up...I read people's descriptions and I expect to see the most amazing boxing ever but the fact is that I see nothing I havent seen from many other fighters...on the vids u see, what does Williams or Burley do so well that other fights havent also done well? I watch Arguello, Leonard, Roy Jones, Locce, Hearns, Pep, Camacho in the early 80's, and others against any number of opponents and that is more impressive than anything I have seen from the other guys...

[IronDanHamza]

YES, thats a very good point...A LOT goes into making fights and just because a guy doesnt fight another guy it doesnt always mean he is scared or believes he will lose...its BUSINESS first, sad to say...by the same token, Ezzard Charles, with only a handfull of gights at the time, took a one day notice fight with Burley and dropped him and beat him convincingly...so by the percpetion of that result, can we just go ahead and say that with 5 weeks advance notice that Charles beats him even worse???? The idea that SRR ducked these guys because he was afriad he would lose has REALLY been blowen out of proportion over the years...and, again, Marcel Cerdan didnt have a ton of trouble winning when he matched up...

Why are you acting like losing to Marcel Cerdan is some kind of travesty? Marcel Cerdan was one of the finest Middleweight's in the history of the sport.

And Robinson didn't want to fight Burley, and the a lot of the Murderer's Row in general.

What about the Cocoa Kid fight? Did Robinson refuse to fight him because of Busniess? No, he didn't.

The bigger myth and thing that's been blown out of proportion is that Robinson didn't pick and chose his fights.

Robinson is like the vast majority of fighters, he picked and chose when he was at the top. And the man was one hell of a diva.

He was definitely the Mayweather of his day in that regard.

[ICEMAN JOHN SCULLY]

I am only saying that he got his shot against Cerdan and lost without controversy...so he wasnt able to overcome Cerdan...so that goes against much of what people say about him and the others..if he didnt fight Cerdan people would claim he would have killed Cerdan and thats why Cerdan ducked. But Cerdan met him and beat him and thats that. That all goes back to my original point, that these guys just because they didnt all get the big shots at glory, it doesnt mean they were shoo-ins to win if they had been...(as MANY would have u believe)

[IronDanHamza]

I am only saying that he got his shot against Cerdan and lost without controversy...so he wasnt able to overcome Cerdan...so that goes against much of what people say about him and the others..if he didnt fight Cerdan people would claim he would have killed Cerdan and thats why Cerdan ducked. But Cerdan met him and beat him and thats that. That all goes back to my original point, that these guys just because they didnt all get the big shots at glory, it doesnt mean they were shoo-ins to win if they had been...(as MANY would have u believe)

What do you mean he got his shot against Cerdan?

Cerdan wasn't the Champion when he fought Williams.

And Williams had already has 150+ fights by the time he fought Cerdan anyway. Not that he was shot or anything, he wasn't. But I don't understand why you're putting so much focus on the Cerdan fight.

Cerdan's a great fighter and he beat him fair and sqaure. What's your point?

And again, I ask you, who is saying that Holman Williams would beat Robinson? You're acting like everyone and their mother's are saying Williams would destroy him, they aren't..

[BRITISH LlON]

I just re-watched some footage of Burley (on youtube) and I gotta say he looks pretty damn skilled to me. (especially for that time)
Other than that, we have to believe what those pple say who shared the ring with him. Eddie Futch said Burley is the best all around fighter he ever saw. Boxrec says Holman has 3 wins over Burley. So that tells us how good Holman must have been.

[MJ223]

Every fighter from those days has a story you can point to and say overrated because they fought so often.... Burley fought Ezzard lost fought Williams then fought Ezzard again and lost all in a month.... Ezzard got put down 10 times in one fight.... Maxim or Bivins don't remember off the top of my head hey shoot me.... But u get my point

[BoxingGenius27]

I'm not trying to butt in or anything, but IronDan does show biased torwards older fighters, even though he says Mayweather is his favorite today.

There have been a plethora of great older fighters, but Dan goes over board in respecting his elders.

[IronDanHamza]

I'm not trying to butt in or anything, but IronDan does show biased torwards older fighters, even though he says Mayweather is his favorite today.

There have been a plethora of great older fighters, but Dan goes over board in respecting his elders.

Floyd Mayweather is my favourite active fighter and my 5th favourite fighter of all time.

I wouldn't call myself biased toward older fighters because I rank alot of modern fighters such as Leonard, Duran, Whitaker etc etc very highly on the all time great list.

I'd say I am biased toward a handful fighters before my time for example Harold Johnson, Ezzard Charles, Ray Robinson who I believe would beat most fighter's in thier divisions and that includes greats like Hagler, Leonard, Spinks, Roy Jones Jr etc but I don't base that solely off because their older fighters, I have a bias to those fighters who were before my time solely because I really like them as fighters, frankly.

I've had plenty of arguments arguing for modern fighters. The most stand out being my view that Mayweather is argubaly THE best defensive fighter in the history of the sport. One in which I have been given endless stick for over and over again. And the lis goes on, really.

And this conversation is between a list of fighters who were all from before my time and older fighter's so I'm not sure what the relevance of your comment is.

[BRITISH LlON]

the skills of Charley Burley:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81non05aKX4