who's greater Bernard Hopkins or Roy Jones jr

[turbotime]

Man I don't know how the hell Jones is greater than Hopkins. Funny thing is I dislike Hopkins with a passion. Jones fought all pretty and moved nice but his opponents really weren't all that apart from Toney and a couple others. Hopkins beat up on midgets but at least they were better than someone like Griffin and stuff.

It's not Roy's fault. You can only fight those available. There was good reason Hopkins waited for Roy to get KTFO before he decided to move up in weight.

[cupocity303]

If you want to take Roys amateur career into the equation when talking about the advantage for Roy in experience, fine.

But don't neglect mentioning Roy having over 130 amateur fights before turning pro, when comparing longevity between the two.

Although professionally, Bernard has had more success as he got older vs Roy... The overall wear and tear on both fighters is comparable if not more less forgiving for Roy.

Roys body had been through much more wear and tear then Bernard when both were 35, respectively.

Fair enough. But you can't attribute his tear for his lack of longevity alone.

The same old argument still stands, he started losing it because his reflexes slowed down and he had no proper fundamentals to box and defend himself as an old man.

[THE REED]

Fair enough. But you can't attribute his tear for his lack of longevity alone.

The same old argument still stands, he started losing it because his reflexes slowed down and he had no proper fundamentals to box and defend himself as an old man.

Did he really not have longevity?

1988 to 2003 without ever being beaten... Except for a dq.

Thats 15 years.

Fighter of the entire decade.

On top of the p4p list for almost half that decade, and went from MW to HW... The guy didnt get sparked til he was 35...

Its not like he had 5 great years and then knocked out at 28.

Sure he didnt last as long as Bernard, but exactly who has?

[cupocity303]

http://www.*************.com/biofiles/bernard-hopkins/


as a b-hop fan you should know more than this, national champ at 9, roy had his first amatuer bout at about 13 or somethin
hopkins had also had 99 amatuer fights and reportedly

http://www.********boxing.com/news.php?p=4036&more=1


http://www.hbo.com/boxing/people/ber...d-hopkins.html

not to mention prison made hopkins, no prison no "smart" hopkins

http://www.doghouseboxing.com/Benz/DHBenz0330f09.htm

It still doesn't change my analogy. Their amateur pedigrees are miles apart.

I know all about his young amateur days. My analogy still stands. He has been on and off with boxing in his youth while Roy was getting spanked into shape by Roy Senior and boxing regularly, becoming a decorated amateur. I don't believe the report of 99 fights. No credible sources.

Hopkins at best was a casual Boxer in his youth. And considering the lack of credible record on his amateur days, he or anyone can make up legends about his Boxing Prison or Amateur days.

[cupocity303]

Did he really not have longevity?

1988 to 2003 without ever being beaten... Except for a dq.

Thats 15 years.

Fighter of the entire decade.

On top of the p4p list for almost half that decade, and went from MW to HW... The guy didnt get sparked til he was 35...

Its not like he had 5 great years and then knocked out at 28.

Sure he didnt last as long as Bernard, but exactly who has?

Yes he lasted 15 years until age 35. That's good enough.

But I saw no credible wear and tear problems, that goes back to my "Excuses/Explanations for Roy's downfall are accepted but not for others" analogy.

He was a healthy athlete, keeping himself in shape and didn't take any beatings like other Gym ****. He simply lost a step and it was good enough to knock him out. Other fighters have lost a step but they kept winning before completely going over the hill.

People were already comparing his Tarver losses to Ali losing to Holmes and Berbick, which is ridiculous (no pun intended).

He was nowhere near the condition of a 1980's Ali or Joe Louis that lost to Marciano. But some people wanna make it seem that way.

[Steak]

Griffin beat James Toney.... Twice.

He was a good fighter.

As were a lot of others Roy fought, people just like to repeat the ol' "cab driver" saying without referring to anyone specific.

Roy didnt fight more tomato cans than anyone else did... If you go back opponent for opponent, you will see all were ranked...

During his LHW stay he fought 7 of the top 10 ranked LHWs in the division.

Well, both Toney wins were considered controversial, and it seems the consensus is that Toeny should have won both.

But Griffin was a very good fighter, at least with Futch in his corner. Without Futch...decent, but, not nearly as good.

Fair enough. But you can't attribute his tear for his lack of longevity alone.

The same old argument still stands, he started losing it because his reflexes slowed down and he had no proper fundamentals to box and defend himself as an old man.

Roy had plenty of longevity. he was beating top ranked fighters for a LONG time.

Not as long as Hopkins, but the only person who has more longevity than Hopkins is Archie Moore. Thats a hell of a claim.


As far as whos greater, its so hard to say, and depends a lot on your criteria. Personally, I think I would give a slight edge to Roy, simply because he has the best win of the two of them(James Toney), and at his best imo was better than Hopkins at his best. Hopkins was more skilled, no doubt, but when it gets down to it Hopkins is a spoiler: He takes flaws, exposes them, and capitalizes. While thats incredibly efficient in some cases, imo if Hopkins were to fight fighters with less flaws, aka true ATGs, he wouldnt be half as effective.

[Weebler I]

B-Hop, his ring ability could serve him until he's 50.

Once RJJ's (probably steroid enhanced) athleticism left him, he took nothing but Ls.

[turbotime]

B-Hop, his ring ability could serve him until he's 50.

Once RJJ's (probably steroid enhanced) athleticism left him, he took nothing but Ls.

There was good reason why Hopkins stayed at 160 until Jones started to slip.

[Weebler I]

There was good reason why Hopkins stayed at 160 until Jones started to slip.

Maybe, but Hopkins sure as hell never had this associated with his name

http://www. boxing insider .com/head...sted-positive/

(remove the gaps)

[DeadLikeMe]

I can remember having this argument with friends 8-10 years ago already...really amazing how long both fighters have managed to stay relevant.