Vitali Klitschko vs Joe Louis - Who wins?

[JAB5239]

The poll result is a kind of victory over racism against the Klitschkos.

It shows MOST people are FAIR and don't believe the very racist idea that Eurasian men are athletically inferior and even the best would lose to a smaller fighter from the supposedly athletically superior race.

What it shows is most people are ignorant to boxing history. And as usual you're the only one bringing race into it.

[JAB5239]

The presumption here is that he would not only be able to throw combinations as usual, but land them also. Which he would NOT.

Once he realizes, that he isn't fight some big sloth who is hunching down while covering up with both hands. That Vitali is fighting with a straight posture maximizing his height advantage, using his jab to keep him at bay, and moderate footwork to circle or paddle back accordingly; Louis would quickly come to the realization that he cannot just throw and land combinations. Vitali doesn't make himself available for combos like a flat footed, standing still target.

He would be reduced to a one-punch at a time fighter, and maybe land the occasional looping right, which wouldn't be enough to get Vitali out of there.

With all due respect, there is NOTHING factual about this post and a serious underestimation of Louis' skills.

[Mr. Invincible]

Yup, Vitali still winning the poll easily. Exactly as I suspected.

[nomadman]

Yup, Vitali still winning the poll easily. Exactly as I suspected.

Polls aren't a definitive decider, but when you get a large enough body of voters they have to stand for something. You can't just dismiss their results if they don't agree with your own personal views on the subject, nor call into question the intelligence and/or knowledge of every poster who voted against you. That's just being petulant and the verbal equivalent of throwing your toys out the pram.

If you don't agree with polls in general then you need to be consistent. Something tells me that those dissenting posters wouldn't say a word if the results were reversed. Worse, they'd refer to the results as some kind of victory.

I'm not a massive fan of polls but at the very least, when enough people take part they can give a good indication of what the general opinion of the masses is.

[nomadman]

Just to weigh in with my opinion on the topic of the thread let me first say that I'm a great admirer of both Louis and the Klitschkos,for many of the same reasons. They were and are all exemplary gentlemen, whose quiet professionalism carries its own weight that a dozen Ali wannabes would struggle to equal. They also, in their own quiet way, defied stereotypes and became rolemodels for a people that were hitherto looked on as inferior (yes, the Klitschkos are white, but they're also Eastern European which carries its own stigma).

Character qualities aside, however, I'd have to say that were this fight made tomorrow and were I to contemplate laying money down on the winner, I'd pick either Klitschko every time. Whilst Louis was an amazing fighter for his era and an enormous evolutionary leap in boxing, he was not a perfect fighter whatever anyone may say. His defence was rather primitive by the standards set by later defensive wizards; his head movement was often absent, and he carried his hands rather too low for a fighter whose defensive reflexes were not always as sharp as they should have been. He was also a fighter who was most confortable at a certain range, when up close to his opponents, and who generally fought to get into that range. He was somewhat lucky in that many of his opponents were also willing to fight up close without smothering or clinching, including many of his larger opponents like Buddy Baer.

Neither of the Klitschkos let their opponents get too close. Wlad is almost neurotic in allowing an opponent to get past his jab and automatically clinches whenever they do so. He's refined outside heavyweight boxing to a tee in my opinion, and as a result has become almost unhittable by even the fastest opponents. His sharpness, his timing and power, all anchored to a phenomenal jab, reduce opponents to vegetables, and say what you want about the current heavyweight division but I've seen too many skilled fighters like Chambers, Byrd, Ibragimov, Chagaev and Haye exhibit the same symptoms for me to believe that this is merely a coincidence. Wlad shuts guys down, and I believe he would shut Louis down in a similar fashion.

As for Vitali I'm only a little less confident, for the simple fact that Vitali likes to mix it up. Numerous posts have mentioned Carnera and how easily he was beaten by Louis, thus 'proving' that a Carnera-like fighter in Vitali would suffer a similar fate, whilst others have reacted with incredulity that such a comparison should even be made. I actually do see some similarities between the two fighters but still see Vitali as quite clearly the superior fighter. Carnera wasn't as bad as he was protrayed, but he was not being a natural fighter nor a natually big man (his size being caused by acromegalic gigantism), and he he fought scared a lot of the time, and this is evident in the way he flinches and pulls back a lot of the time in his fights. For me the important difference between him and Vitali, and it's a subtle but important one, is that Vitali has enormous confidence in his abilities. He knows that he's the bigger and stronger man and fights like it. He's also very underrated defense-wise due to his excellent chin. Very few heavyweights of his size have ever had the punch anticipation he's had. Whilst he looks cumbersome and uncoordinated it's telling that only Sanders was the last man to have landed a solid shot on him. Louis would have a hard time landing anything of consequence on Vitali's chin without eating hard shots in return, and I don't see his chin standing up to many of Vitali's solid thudding blows.

It's sad that so many people see it as an affront to even consider the possibility of a Klitschko winning against Joe Louis, as though neither Klitschko was fit to even lace Louis's boots. Both the Klitschkos are great fighters in their time, just as Joe Louis was in his. But too many people are caught in the myth of Joe Louis as opposed to the truth of the man to give a reasonable prediction of the fight.

Take the blinkers off for once and see the fight as it would really be.

[winky's right]

Just to weigh in with my opinion on the topic of the thread let me first say that I'm a great admirer of both Louis and the Klitschkos,for many of the same reasons. They were and are all exemplary gentlemen, whose quiet professionalism carries its own weight that a dozen Ali wannabes would struggle to equal. They also, in their own quiet way, defied stereotypes and became rolemodels for a people that were hitherto looked on as inferior (yes, the Klitschkos are white, but they're also Eastern European which carries its own stigma).

Character qualities aside, however, I'd have to say that were this fight made tomorrow and were I to contemplate laying money down on the winner, I'd pick either Klitschko every time. Whilst Louis was an amazing fighter for his era and an enormous evolutionary leap in boxing, he was not a perfect fighter whatever anyone may say. His defence was rather primitive by the standards set by later defensive wizards; his head movement was often absent, and he carried his hands rather too low for a fighter whose defensive reflexes were not always as sharp as they should have been. He was also a fighter who was most confortable at a certain range, when up close to his opponents, and who generally fought to get into that range. He was somewhat lucky in that many of his opponents were also willing to fight up close without smothering or clinching, including many of his larger opponents like Buddy Baer.

Neither of the Klitschkos let their opponents get too close. Wlad is almost neurotic in allowing an opponent to get past his jab and automatically clinches whenever they do so. He's refined outside heavyweight boxing to a tee in my opinion, and as a result has become almost unhittable by even the fastest opponents. His sharpness, his timing and power, all anchored to a phenomenal jab, reduce opponents to vegetables, and say what you want about the current heavyweight division but I've seen too many skilled fighters like Chambers, Byrd, Ibragimov, Chagaev and Haye exhibit the same symptoms for me to believe that this is merely a coincidence. Wlad shuts guys down, and I believe he would shut Louis down in a similar fashion.

As for Vitali I'm only a little less confident, for the simple fact that Vitali likes to mix it up. Numerous posts have mentioned Carnera and how easily he was beaten by Louis, thus 'proving' that a Carnera-like fighter in Vitali would suffer a similar fate, whilst others have reacted with incredulity that such a comparison should even be made. I actually do see some similarities between the two fighters but still see Vitali as quite clearly the superior fighter. Carnera wasn't as bad as he was protrayed, but he was not being a natural fighter nor a natually big man (his size being caused by acromegalic gigantism), and he he fought scared a lot of the time, and this is evident in the way he flinches and pulls back a lot of the time in his fights. For me the important difference between him and Vitali, and it's a subtle but important one, is that Vitali has enormous confidence in his abilities. He knows that he's the bigger and stronger man and fights like it. He's also very underrated defense-wise due to his excellent chin. Very few heavyweights of his size have ever had the punch anticipation he's had. Whilst he looks cumbersome and uncoordinated it's telling that only Sanders was the last man to have landed a solid shot on him. Louis would have a hard time landing anything of consequence on Vitali's chin without eating hard shots in return, and I don't see his chin standing up to many of Vitali's solid thudding blows.

It's sad that so many people see it as an affront to even consider the possibility of a Klitschko winning against Joe Louis, as though neither Klitschko was fit to even lace Louis's boots. Both the Klitschkos are great fighters in their time, just as Joe Louis was in his. But too many people are caught in the myth of Joe Louis as opposed to the truth of the man to give a reasonable prediction of the fight.

Take the blinkers off for once and see the fight as it would really be.

Most logical break down of the fight in this thread IMO

[Joeyzagz]

Polls aren't a definitive decider, but when you get a large enough body of voters they have to stand for something.

Vitali has a 40 lb weight advantage over a guy who fought 75 years ago? Damn, I should vote Vitali too! But then facts start to creep into my head....

-The fact Joe Louis destroyed EVERYONE with a 40+ lb advantage over him.

-The fact that he punched out 250 lb men, and The fact he took punches from 250lb men. Floored/KOd the biggest guys on his resume.

Vitali on the other hand...

Failed to floor Vaughn Bean and Chris Byrd, the two smallest guys on his resume, and he shamefully quit with a 40+ lb weight advantage over an opponent.

So basically you have a giant who fights below his average with little guys vs a little guy who is 100% KO perfect with Giants. Vitali has never seen a mite with the skills of a boxer, and punching powers of a lennox. Joe is like both of Vitali's losses combined into one fighter.

[titanium]

After watching Vitali's brother struggle to outpoint Haye, a cruiserweight and watching Vitali go so many rounds with Adamek, a former light heavyweight champ, I realize how silly people are by saying the Klitschko's would beat a great because they are too big. Klischko's fans just refuse to admit Louis was in another class all together. Louis at 210 pounds would breeze through everyone any heavyweight champion today has faced.

Come on, it's like saying an turkey would beat an eagle because it's taller and heavier.

[Superflo777]

After watching Vitali's brother struggle to outpoint Haye, a cruiserweight and watching Vitali go so many rounds with Adamek, a former light heavyweight champ, I realize how silly people are by saying the Klitschko's would beat a great because they are too big. Klischko's fans just refuse to admit Louis was in another class all together. Louis at 210 pounds would breeze through everyone any heavyweight champion today has faced.

Come on, it's like saying an turkey would beat an eagle because it's taller and heavier.

What a ****** post.

Haye was running away the entire fight not engaging in the fight, was weaving and ducking for 12 rounds and still couldn't find a way past Wlad's jab, eating 105 jabs and being outboxed more than 2:1 and losing points clearly. He was more skilled than most of Joe Louis' opponents.

Adamek couldn't match Vitali for the blink of an eye and could have been KO'd before if Vitali wanted to. He wanted to make the fight longer because of the criticism after the Solis KO 1.

Vitali beats Joe Louis.

[serpicotruth]

Vitali by decision or murder