Comments Thread For: The Update: BoxingScene.com Pound-for-Pound Top Ten

[crold1]

Before that he should fight the man who is and has for many years been ranked #2 in the division. Martinez would be the heavy favourite but it would give divisional clarity, and would cement his status as divisional king, which is still a bit iffy because he has yet to beat anyone other than Pavlik who was ranked at Middleweight when he fought them. And Pavlik was not the fighter he had once been. And for all his limitations, Sturm is a bone fide Middleweight, and the universally ranked #2 at the weight, and has enough skill to make the fight interesting. Some say it would be like the Dzinziruk fight but Sturm is a lot better than Dzinziruk. And the Dzinziruk win did greatly improve his exposure, and his P4P status, and so convincingly beating the #2 in his own division would do the same but even more so.



The fact is, you picked Haye to beat Wlad. And when Wlad easily beats Povetkin and Helenius, as he eventually will, you'll just say they were over-rated as well.

Wlad is over-cautious, which you regard as being timid and which you hold against him; but the fact is that his style since Steward tightened up his defence and dramatically improved his jab and footwork is very effective if not pretty, and would have been effective against any fighter from the past: other fighters look bad against him because he makes them look bad.

You mention his jab and his right hand but what really surprised and did for Haye was Wlad's footwork. It was because of that footwork that Haye could almost never land anything meaningful, and frequently missed by comically wide margins. Also, his jab isn't just fast and accurate as well as powerful, but it's more subtle than most give him credit for. He feints effectively with it a lot, and as a result Haye was too busy worrying about where the jabs were coming from to have any time to think about offence.

All in all I think you under-rate Wlad because you don't like his style. But styles don't have to be enjoyable to watch in order to be effective, even at the very top level.

Dave:

Williams was rated by almost everyone, including Ring, in the top ten at Middle prior to the rematch. That said, I wholeheartedly agree I'd love to see Martinez-Sturm. That's a better fight than most realize. Good luck getting it made.

As to Wlad, I think I rate him just fine. I got the Haye pick wrong but...oh well. I don't have to then overrate Wlad's performance which was less than sensational. It was adequate for the task. I commend it for that. He's a winner and better than his haters acknowledge while still short of the greatness some wish on him. He's a VERY good, HOF heavy who is a credit to the game as an ambassador.

However, if everyone in boxing were the same size, this ten rating would be charitable IMO.

[crold1]

pacroid at 1 lol.. froch ahead of ward lol.. well i know the truth only 4 real fighters on that list.. and bhop didnt lose it was a no contest..

It's still officially a loss. The CSAC has not yet met to overturn. You're confusing the way the WBC chose to observe the finish. Most assume the official change is coming but it would be inaccurate not to record the loss as is now.

[crold1]

3) Juan Manuel Marquez (53-6-1, 39 KO)
Age: 38
Current Title: Lineal World Lightweight Champion (2008-Present, 3 Defenses)
Additional Titles: IBF Featherweight (2003-05, 4 Defenses); WBA Featherweight (2003-05, 3 Defenses); WBC Jr. Lightweight (2007-08, 1 Defense); Ring Lightweight (2008-Present, 3 Defenses); WBO/WBA Lightweight (2009-Present, 2 Defenses)
Record in Title Fights: 10-4-1, 4 KO (12-4-1, 6 KO including interim title fights) (Overall); 4-1-1, 3 KO (Lineal Only)
Last Five Opponents: Juan Manuel Marquez (L12) Likar Ramos (KO1), Michael Katsidis (TKO9), Floyd Mayweather Jr. (L12), Juan Diaz (UD12, TKO9)

Caught that...I laughed at that little screw up. Being fixed.

[TintaBoricua]

Juan Manuel Márquez lost to Juan Manuel Márquez...I'm not kidding. Check his last five opponents.

[MASTERFUL]

The fact is, you picked Haye to beat Wlad. And when Wlad easily beats Povetkin and Helenius, as he eventually will, you'll just say they were over-rated as well.

Wlad is over-cautious, which you regard as being timid and which you hold against him; but the fact is that his style since Steward tightened up his defence and dramatically improved his jab and footwork is very effective if not pretty, and would have been effective against any fighter from the past: other fighters look bad against him because he makes them look bad.

You mention his jab and his right hand but what really surprised and did for Haye was Wlad's footwork. It was because of that footwork that Haye could almost never land anything meaningful, and frequently missed by comically wide margins. Also, his jab isn't just fast and accurate as well as powerful, but it's more subtle than most give him credit for. He feints effectively with it a lot, and as a result Haye was too busy worrying about where the jabs were coming from to have any time to think about offence.

All in all I think you under-rate Wlad because you don't like his style. But styles don't have to be enjoyable to watch in order to be effective, even at the very top level.

Good post.

Cliff Rold is a Klitschko hater. He always tries to bash and discredit the Klitschkos.

Wlad is #5 on the Ring Magazine P4P list.

Vitali should be right next to Wlad on every P4P list.

[MASTERFUL]

Because its p4p and Wlad is much bigger than the guys he fights.

KO 2 Ray Austin 6'7" 247 lbs






TKO 10 Jameel McCline 6'7" 263 lbs

[MASTERFUL]

KO 2 Derrick Jefferson 6'6" 260 lbs






KO 11 Tony Thompson 6'6" 247 lbs

[LeadUppercut]

Good post.

Cliff Rold is a Klitschko hater. He always tries to bash and discredit the Klitschkos.

What a terrible list.

Where is Vitali?

Come on man, it is almost impossible to conceive that a guy who is 6'6"-250lbs could be a top P4P fighter.

It is hard to argue P4P when you are bigger than all of your opponents by 5" and 40lbs.

I think that is what Cliff meant when he said this.....
"However, if everyone in boxing were the same size, this ten rating would be charitable IMO."

[LeadUppercut]

KO 2 Derrick Jefferson 6'6" 260 lbs






KO 11 Tony Thompson 6'6" 247 lbs

If Ivan Calderon was naturally 6'6"-250lbs, he would beat Wlad before breakfast, beat Vitali before lunch, and he would be looking for something to snack on before dinner.

Come on man......

The Klitschko's rock, they rule the heavyweight division, and Cliff already admitted that they are top hof'ers.

[Dave Rado]

And I pretty much agree with everything that you said in the previous post, but will add that Martinez would fight Sturm in a heartbeat.

I've never heard Martinez express any interest in fighting Sturm. Of course it doesn't help that the (American) interviewers never ask him straight whether he'd like to fight him. But when they ask whom he would like to fight, I've never heard him mention Sturm.

If Martinez was keen, I'm sure the fight could be made. I'm not saying he's ducking, that would be ridiculous, but he just doesn't seem interested - which is very unfortunate, IMO, and bad for the division.