John Ruiz Discussion Thread (no flames)

[jabsRstiff]

I will give him credit where it is due he is tough and does take on all comers....but he is not fun to watch and should be penilized more for his exxcesive holding and he would not win as much if he was.

You basically stated that he has acheived what he's acheived, through mostly illegal means. You combine this with the fact that he has been helped out by his promoter & the people the promoter pays off......how can you respect what he's "acheived" ?

[PBDS]

This thread is a no-flaming zone. Serious discussion only. Thank you.

Okay, I just wanted to talk about John Ruiz, but in a calm environment. Namely, appreciation of the guy within the current heavyweight make-up.

It's a poor division, and John is the most accessible of the title holders, making concerted efforts to make his style more audience-friendly (as noted in the commentary in his last fight) and hosting his own forum. I won't even go into the fact that he and Stoney should be an ideal double-act. He hasn't got the most charisma in the world, but he seems a genuinely nice guy.

Yet we want to talk about him in the ring, right? His fights are often ugly - he KNOWS they're ugly, and even apologised for the Rahman fight. Yet at such a poor level of professional boxing in the premier division, is he really so bad?

Ruiz has been humiliated only twice in the ring. He was taken out in seconds by Tua, something which could have happened to anyone... indeed, the most dominant heavyweight of the last ten years wasn't averse to taking an early fall on one occasion. Then he was embarrassingly outclassed by Roy Jones Jr., but at a time when Roy was rightfully regarded as the p4p best on the planet.

Let's talk about his achievements. Even though the Rahman fight was terrible to watch, while Hasim was regarded as the puncher going into the fight, not only did Ruiz unsuprisingly manage to neutralise his attacks (his much-maligned and deservedly so holding tactics) but surprisingly Ruiz had Rahman pointedly refusing to engage by his own firepower in the second half of the fight.

James Toney? Much touted, whether it was intentional or not, Toney spent his bout with Ruiz juiced... and it was still a reasonably competitive match-up, with John all but abandoning his holding tactics for straight boxing.

He's 1-1-1 against Holyfield in an era where Holyfield still had enough left to beat Hasim Rahman. He's got the chin to get up off the deck against Golota, and as he's only been KOed once in 48 fights we can even argue that the Tua incident was a freak accident. He's got the inner strength to carry on winning, despite being arguably the most detracted heavyweight champion in history. His 28 KOs from 41 wins isn't a bad record, and even includes scalps like Tony Tucker, someone a prime Tyson couldn't take out. (In fairness, Tucker was KOed in two by Herbie Hide, so I know this sort of thing is all paper).


Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying Ruiz isn't dreadful to watch, and I'm not saying he's a great, even in today's scene. But for a guy who does his best with such a little, and carries on knowing how much he's scorned, doesn't he deserve at least a little respect?

....Let me just say, that the milk dripping out of Toney's **** in that avatar is funny as hell. And as far as Ruiz goes, how come we just can't seem to got rid of this guy?

[RAESAAD]

You basically stated that he has acheived what he's acheived, through mostly illegal means. You combine this with the fact that he has been helped out by his promoter & the people the promoter pays off......how can you respect what he's "acheived" ?

I said I respect that he is tough and fights all challengers....that is it........you are right alot of his achievements should not be respected for that reason....besides I think Golota was robbed in their fight and if that would have been the right call Golota would have had his ass handed to him By Brewster and we would be on our way to unification with Brewster holding 2 straps and then everyone knows where the other 2 are but we would be rid of Ruiz and Golota.

[Guest]

Oh...so disagreeing, & asking questions, motivated by my disagreeing....now constitutes "flaming" ?


Did I insult you ? No, I'm asking you questions, Anorak. You've gotten too sensitive, my friend.

You're right my man, I am a sensitive cuss these days.

It's just that I hope for a bit of discussion one way or the other, people citing examples of Ruiz whether they like him or not. Not just "he's crap" and that's it.

[Guest]

....Let me just say, that the milk dripping out of Toney's **** in that avatar is funny as hell.

Cheers man, always try my best, you know that.

[jabsRstiff]

As if we didn't have enough steroid-laden dairy products & produce !

[SnoopySmurf]

No flame. But John Ruiz is boring and has no skills.

[tino]

[DiegoFuego]

This thread is a no-flaming zone. Serious discussion only. Thank you.

Okay, I just wanted to talk about John Ruiz, but in a calm environment. Namely, appreciation of the guy within the current heavyweight make-up.

It's a poor division, and John is the most accessible of the title holders, making concerted efforts to make his style more audience-friendly (as noted in the commentary in his last fight) and hosting his own forum. I won't even go into the fact that he and Stoney should be an ideal double-act. He hasn't got the most charisma in the world, but he seems a genuinely nice guy.

Yet we want to talk about him in the ring, right? His fights are often ugly - he KNOWS they're ugly, and even apologised for the Rahman fight. Yet at such a poor level of professional boxing in the premier division, is he really so bad?

Ruiz has been humiliated only twice in the ring. He was taken out in seconds by Tua, something which could have happened to anyone... indeed, the most dominant heavyweight of the last ten years wasn't averse to taking an early fall on one occasion. Then he was embarrassingly outclassed by Roy Jones Jr., but at a time when Roy was rightfully regarded as the p4p best on the planet.

Let's talk about his achievements. Even though the Rahman fight was terrible to watch, while Hasim was regarded as the puncher going into the fight, not only did Ruiz unsuprisingly manage to neutralise his attacks (his much-maligned and deservedly so holding tactics) but surprisingly Ruiz had Rahman pointedly refusing to engage by his own firepower in the second half of the fight.

James Toney? Much touted, whether it was intentional or not, Toney spent his bout with Ruiz juiced... and it was still a reasonably competitive match-up, with John all but abandoning his holding tactics for straight boxing.

He's 1-1-1 against Holyfield in an era where Holyfield still had enough left to beat Hasim Rahman. He's got the chin to get up off the deck against Golota, and as he's only been KOed once in 48 fights we can even argue that the Tua incident was a freak accident. He's got the inner strength to carry on winning, despite being arguably the most detracted heavyweight champion in history. His 28 KOs from 41 wins isn't a bad record, and even includes scalps like Tony Tucker, someone a prime Tyson couldn't take out. (In fairness, Tucker was KOed in two by Herbie Hide, so I know this sort of thing is all paper).


Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying Ruiz isn't dreadful to watch, and I'm not saying he's a great, even in today's scene. But for a guy who does his best with such a little, and carries on knowing how much he's scorned, doesn't he deserve at least a little respect?

you must really hate Toney to say Ruiz held his own with him, lol

Toney gave Ruiz the worst beating he's ever had in his career. Tua knocked him out and it was done, but Toney pummeled the guy over 12 rounds.

[Guest]

you must really hate Toney to say Ruiz held his own with him, lol

Toney gave Ruiz the worst beating he's ever had in his career. Tua knocked him out and it was done, but Toney pummeled the guy over 12 rounds.

No, I love Toney but it wasn't a one-sided beatdown. And in terms of scorecards, it wasn't like he was leading heavily.