John Ruiz Discussion Thread (no flames)

[jabsRstiff]

Ruiz has beaten as good a fighters as this division has to offer and he has resurrected his career more than once. He deserves credit. His opponents have rarely found a way to get around his unappealing yet effective style. Anyone who can't step back and give him some kinda due props is not using their brain. I admit I root against Ruiz every time he fights but he does deserve some measure of respect for his ring accomplishments.

All that said, he's still a whiner and a hugger so ppl will continue to dis him.

Now, Anorak......where is your criticism of that which is bolded ?

Oh, you don't have a problem with that....because it's what you also believe. Doesn't matter that it has a somewhat insulting tone to it, as long as it's in line with your thinking ?
You are getting on my nerves really fast here. You're being very selective in your brow-beating, buddy.

[Guest]

Anorak.....

If you had read the post from Super Lightweight that I was responding to.....you'd see what I said was a direct (& similar) response to something he said.

If you want to pick a fight with me.....just be more direct please. I will be more than happy to oblige you.

Pick a fight? Not being fair? I'm getting on your nerves? What? You ****ting me, man?


Maybe I had my "Super_Lightweight Blinkers" on which blinded me to his full attacks (this is the guy who once said the only reason why I didn't think the sun shines out of RJJ's arse - and I do like the guy, I just think he's overrated - is because I'm a "Brit"). I tend to just think "oh, that's him."

Getting on your nerves though? Neglecting to keep it fair? SL agreeing with me?


Chill out, man. Let's get it clear - I created this thread to DISCUSS Ruiz. I couldn't care less if people like him or not - what I originally posted was more food for thought rather than my cast iron opinion - I just didn't want it to descend into the usual "F you, f you, f you" routine.

As you were the first to respond (though admittedly nothing like that) I just tried to get it toned down before it got out of hand. If I was extreme, then I take it back.

Seriously, you've taken me the wrong way here - peace.

[jabsRstiff]

All is good, Anorak.

But, you have to realize that John Ruiz brings out the extreme disgust in MOST fight fans.
There are those who begrudgingly give him some kind of respect, while the rest truly hate him for the damage he has done, & continues to do, to the sport.

If you create a thread about such a loathed figure, you can't expect too much nice talk to occur. It's not as if those who are disgusted by him aren't level-headed, or act irrationally.
We just think he's a putrid fighter, & a fraud to boot.

This is the most unbiased of viewpoints, as it has nothing to do with him as a person, his race, etc.
It's all about how he fights, & how he's been undeservedly aided by non-fighters.

[Truth]

The thing is John Ruiz is saying he could beat James Toney, and the only reason he lost was because of steroids. THAT ISN'T TRUE, Toney is simply better and would beat Ruiz 9 times out of 10.

[Guest]

All is good, Anorak.

But, you have to realize that John Ruiz brings out the extreme disgust in MOST fight fans.
There are those who begrudgingly give him some kind of respect, while the rest truly hate him for the damage he has done, & continues to do, to the sport.

If you create a thread about such a loathed figure, you can't expect too much nice talk to occur. It's not as if those who are disgusted by him aren't level-headed, or act irrationally.
We just think he's a putrid fighter, & a fraud to boot.

This is the most unbiased of viewpoints, as it has nothing to do with him as a person, his race, etc.
It's all about how he fights, & how he's been undeservedly aided by non-fighters.

That's cool, man, apologies if I seemed OTT, I was only saying half my **** with tongue in cheek anyway, you know me by now.

But I just wanted this thread to go a few pages without descending into abuse. So far it's managed it, which gives hope.


My God though, this thread made me watch a Ruiz fight last night... sweet Jesus, it ain't pretty, is it?

[NAB]

My God though, this thread made me watch a Ruiz fight last night... sweet Jesus, it ain't pretty, is it?

No. No it isn't.

[MikeHunt]

This thread is a no-flaming zone. Serious discussion only. Thank you.

Okay, I just wanted to talk about John Ruiz, but in a calm environment. Namely, appreciation of the guy within the current heavyweight make-up.

It's a poor division, and John is the most accessible of the title holders, making concerted efforts to make his style more audience-friendly (as noted in the commentary in his last fight) and hosting his own forum. I won't even go into the fact that he and Stoney should be an ideal double-act. He hasn't got the most charisma in the world, but he seems a genuinely nice guy.

Yet we want to talk about him in the ring, right? His fights are often ugly - he KNOWS they're ugly, and even apologised for the Rahman fight. Yet at such a poor level of professional boxing in the premier division, is he really so bad?

Ruiz has been humiliated only twice in the ring. He was taken out in seconds by Tua, something which could have happened to anyone... indeed, the most dominant heavyweight of the last ten years wasn't averse to taking an early fall on one occasion. Then he was embarrassingly outclassed by Roy Jones Jr., but at a time when Roy was rightfully regarded as the p4p best on the planet.

Let's talk about his achievements. Even though the Rahman fight was terrible to watch, while Hasim was regarded as the puncher going into the fight, not only did Ruiz unsuprisingly manage to neutralise his attacks (his much-maligned and deservedly so holding tactics) but surprisingly Ruiz had Rahman pointedly refusing to engage by his own firepower in the second half of the fight.

James Toney? Much touted, whether it was intentional or not, Toney spent his bout with Ruiz juiced... and it was still a reasonably competitive match-up, with John all but abandoning his holding tactics for straight boxing.

He's 1-1-1 against Holyfield in an era where Holyfield still had enough left to beat Hasim Rahman. He's got the chin to get up off the deck against Golota, and as he's only been KOed once in 48 fights we can even argue that the Tua incident was a freak accident. He's got the inner strength to carry on winning, despite being arguably the most detracted heavyweight champion in history. His 28 KOs from 41 wins isn't a bad record, and even includes scalps like Tony Tucker, someone a prime Tyson couldn't take out. (In fairness, Tucker was KOed in two by Herbie Hide, so I know this sort of thing is all paper).


Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying Ruiz isn't dreadful to watch, and I'm not saying he's a great, even in today's scene. But for a guy who does his best with such a little, and carries on knowing how much he's scorned, doesn't he deserve at least a little respect?

Wow, you really put some thought into this one. Still absorbing all the info..........