GINO ROS' SHOCKER: Victor Ortiz Knocks Out Mayweather

[Gino Ros]

Did you? I didn't see that.

How about Eder Jofre? Argubaly the greatest Bantamweight of all time, who other than 2 loss's, 1 being very close loss, to the great Fighting Harda in 65 and 66, hadn't really shown any real significant decline at the Top level at the age of 34.

He even went on to a higher weight class and won the World Title off an excellent fighter in Jose Legra at the age of 37.

But that's just off the top of my head.

Plenty of fighters, lower weight classes and all, could still perform at the top level at 34, 35, 36 onward. Take Azumah Nelson for another example, that knockout of a prime Jeff Fenech at 34 I think he was? Ooo, what a performance.

But, Eder Jorfre and Azumah Nelson are special fighters, along with only a handful.

For all we know, Mayweather could well be in that catergory. The fact is, he really hasn't shown significant decline at all at this point.

I can't speak for Jofre... but I can DEFINITELY speak for Azumah, because I watched him fight. he was NOT the same fighter in his mid-thirties (34) as he was in his 20s.

[IronDanHamza]

I can't speak for Jofre... but I can DEFINITELY speak for Azumah, because I watched him fight. he was NOT the same fighter in his mid-thirties (34) as he was in his 20s.

Of course not, man. I'm not saying that.

You're misundertanding me.

Is Mayweather in his prime? God no! Not even close.

Has he declined since 2006? Absolutely! He absolutely has. He's not the same fighter who fought Zab Judah. At all.

But, has Mayweather shown a level of decline where he loses to a fighter of Ortiz calibur? I'm sorry but in my opinion he really hasn't.

Is that because he hasn't fought? Maybe.

But maybe not. Maybe Mayweather will be one of those handful of guys who can still do it to a sufficent level at 34, who knows?

The Azumah Nelson comparison wasn't a comparison between Floyd and his situation. It's not alike.

All the Nelson comparison was was to show that some fighters can still compete at the top level, against Top opposition, in their mid 30's, whilst they aren't what they once were.

Similar to Mayweather's situation now.

At the end of the day, all questions will be answered tommrow. Tommorow we will find out how much Mayweather has left.

[Carpe Diem]

Larry Merchant say's alot of things I've been listening to Larry for a long long time now and he in my opinion is one of the worst Boxing analysts I have come across.

He even said Mayweather wasn't hurt in Round 2

He was pretty damn accurate, though. No? He landed over half of his punches I think.

I see what your saying but all these comparison's are just so different. All this 'Is this Leonard-Norris all over again?!' and 'Is it Whitaker-Oscar revisisted?' or 'Is this another Tyson-Douglas??' we need to take into consideration so many many many various and differing factors that these individuals had going into these fights. One's that Mayweather simply doesn't share.

As for Roy, putting on all that weight at that age will slow you down, and of course, the Ruiz fight was evidence of that, he's clearly slower. Then losing it in a matter of months? Suicide.

Plus, as you know, Roy relied alot more on his age than Floyd does, in my opinion.

My eye's aren't fooling me either, my friend. I have seen 'unbeatable' fighters get defeated by father time time and time again.

But for me, Mayweather hasn't shown he is on that rapid decline hill yet. For me, Mayweather looked fantastic against Mosley.

And, tommrow will be a gauge as to how he has declined. But I doubt it's his time, yet.

If Floyd has a tough time with Ortiz tomorrow then it's clear as day that Floyd is on that hill and as we all know it's only downhill from there.

^^^ This. I'm currently re-watching it on On Demand right now, and the only thing that was noticeable about Floyd was his lesser used of lateral movement. It's obvious that he has regressed in terms of his reflexes, mobility and sharpness, but not to the extend of being shot to **** like Glen Johnson, Roy Jones Jr, Marco Antonio Barrera, ect. I hope tomorrow's fight prove us both wrong because i just don't see it yet.

[IMDAZED]

Larry Merchant say's alot of things I've been listening to Larry for a long long time now and he in my opinion is one of the worst Boxing analysts I have come across.

He even said Mayweather wasn't hurt in Round 2

He was pretty damn accurate, though. No? He landed over half of his punches I think.

I see what your saying but all these comparison's are just so different. All this 'Is this Leonard-Norris all over again?!' and 'Is it Whitaker-Oscar revisisted?' or 'Is this another Tyson-Douglas??' we need to take into consideration so many many many various and differing factors that these individuals had going into these fights. One's that Mayweather simply doesn't share.

As for Roy, putting on all that weight at that age will slow you down, and of course, the Ruiz fight was evidence of that, he's clearly slower. Then losing it in a matter of months? Suicide.

Plus, as you know, Roy relied alot more on his age than Floyd does, in my opinion.

My eye's aren't fooling me either, my friend. I have seen 'unbeatable' fighters get defeated by father time time and time again.

But for me, Mayweather hasn't shown he is on that rapid decline hill yet. For me, Mayweather looked fantastic against Mosley.

And, tommrow will be a gauge as to how he has declined. But I doubt it's his time, yet.

If Floyd has a tough time with Ortiz tommorow then it's clear as day that Floyd is on that hill and as we all know it's only downhill from there.

LOL yeah that was Larry's initial reaction when Floyd took that second shot but he got pretty quiet when it became obvious (a moment later) that he was truly hurt when he stumbled forward on shaky legs after flailing with a right.

I hear what you're saying regarding rapid decline. I wouldn't go that far but he has lost quite a bit. He had so much of it that he could afford to lose it and still be damn good. That's what he was to me against Shane. I think he will have a tough time tomorrow and if he doesn't, props to him. No, I'm not going to call it an ATG victory but it will be what I thought it was when the fight was signed, a solid, solid win. But regardless of what happens, Father Time will get you. It's already started roll downhill already, we just don't know how fast its going.

[IMDAZED]

Of course not, man. I'm not saying that.

You're misundertanding me.

Is Mayweather in his prime? God no! Not even close.

Has he declined since 2006? Absolutely! He absolutely has. He's not the same fighter who fought Zab Judah. At all.

But, has Mayweather shown a level of decline where he loses to a fighter of Ortiz calibur? I'm sorry but in my opinion he really hasn't.

Is that because he hasn't fought? Maybe.

But maybe not. Maybe Mayweather will be one of those handful of guys who can still do it to a sufficent level at 34, who knows?

The Azumah Nelson comparison wasn't a comparison between Floyd and his situation. It's not alike.

All the Nelson comparison was was to show that some fighters can still compete at the top level, against Top opposition, in their mid 30's, whilst they aren't what they once were.

Similar to Mayweather's situation now.

At the end of the day, all questions will be answered tommrow. Tommorow we will find out how much Mayweather has left.

Azumah was able to compete but he also fell off and had to retire. The losses to Ruelas and Leija showed he wasn't the same fighter. He did make a spectacular comeback at 37 but the Fenech II victory (at age 33) was his last hurrah for a few years.

[IronDanHamza]

LOL yeah that was Larry's initial reaction when Floyd took that second shot but he got pretty quiet when it became obvious (a moment later) that he was truly hurt when he stumbled forward on shaky legs after flailing with a right.

I hear what you're saying regarding rapid decline. I wouldn't go that far but he has lost quite a bit. He had so much of it that he could afford to lose it and still be damn good. That's what he was to me against Shane. I think he will have a tough time tomorrow and if he doesn't, props to him. No, I'm not going to call it an ATG victory but it will be what I thought it was when the fight was signed, a solid, solid win. But regardless of what happens, Father Time will get you. It's already started roll downhill already, we just don't know how fast its going.

Man, the guy said it after Mosley's flurrly on the ropes and Floyd was stumbling forward trying to walk down Shane But yeah he did get quiet. What a ****** thing to say.

Remember when Marquez landed that punch that hurt Pac in the second fight and cut him? And that nuthugging idiot said 'He's not hurt, he just blinked at the same time that Marquez punched him' (2 Minutes later blood comes from his eye)

I still don't know though, man. That pull counter takes some SEVERE reflexes to pull off like that. I jsut don't think that a fighter, even Floyd, in sufficent decline can pull that off like that. And many other things in that fight, but man I'm just excited to see now.

[Gino Ros]

Of course not, man. I'm not saying that.

You're misundertanding me.

Is Mayweather in his prime? God no! Not even close.

Has he declined since 2006? Absolutely! He absolutely has. He's not the same fighter who fought Zab Judah. At all.

But, has Mayweather shown a level of decline where he loses to a fighter of Ortiz calibur? I'm sorry but in my opinion he really hasn't.

Is that because he hasn't fought? Maybe.

But maybe not. Maybe Mayweather will be one of those handful of guys who can still do it to a sufficent level at 34, who knows?

The Azumah Nelson comparison wasn't a comparison between Floyd and his situation. It's not alike.

All the Nelson comparison was was to show that some fighters can still compete at the top level, against Top opposition, in their mid 30's, whilst they aren't what they once were.

Similar to Mayweather's situation now.

At the end of the day, all questions will be answered tommrow. Tommorow we will find out how much Mayweather has left.

Then we agree. Floyd is still "A" top fighter. But he is not what he was.

[deejd]

I still don't know though, man. That pull counter takes some SEVERE reflexes to pull off like that. I jsut don't think that a fighter, even Floyd, in sufficent decline can pull that off like that. And many other things in that fight, but man I'm just excited to see now.

I wouldn't be surprised if he abandons that style of fighting and adopts a style similar to Winky's. Only problem is he doesn't really have the size to impose his will. Like you said (and Dazed made a point of this awhiiiile ago in a different thread), RJJ really depended on his age and athleticism whereas Mayweather is very sound technically (i.e. uhhh, put both hands up and actually block a punch, haha).

[IMDAZED]

Man, the guy said it after Mosley's flurrly on the ropes and Floyd was stumbling forward trying to walk down Shane But yeah he did get quiet. What a ****** thing to say.

Remember when Marquez landed that punch that hurt Pac in the second fight and cut him? And that nuthugging idiot said 'He's not hurt, he just blinked at the same time that Marquez punched him' (2 Minutes later blood comes from his eye)

I still don't know though, man. That pull counter takes some SEVERE reflexes to pull off like that. I jsut don't think that a fighter, even Floyd, in sufficent decline can pull that off like that. And many other things in that fight, but man I'm just excited to see now.

Me too, man. Either Floyd does it again or Ortiz makes history. Can't wait.

[IronDanHamza]

Azumah was able to compete but he also fell off and had to retire. The losses to Ruelas and Leija showed he wasn't the same fighter. He did make a spectacular comeback at 37 but the Fenech II victory (at age 33) was his last hurrah for a few years.

That's what I was referring to.

At 33-34 he could still compete. I wasn't referring to the Leija fight etc.

But that Fenech fight. Wow. Did you think Azumah would pull that off? Knowing you you probably did