GINO ROS' SHOCKER: Victor Ortiz Knocks Out Mayweather

[Gino Ros]

I honestly don't understand the overhyping of Ortiz, TBH.

Show me an example of someone overhyping Ortiz.

[-Kev-]

And if Mayweather wins, sure, people will say "I told you so" or whatever. But I still won't change my opinion on Floyd playing with fire by retiring for 2 years then coming back thinking he's still 25.

[IMDAZED]

So is the overrating of Victor Ortiz a way to make a Floyd win better than what it actually will be?

I think most here (like myself) who give Ortiz a good shot believe it has a lot more to do with Floyd slowing down, coupled with his inactivity that will eventually do him in. Could be this fight, could be the next, who knows?

[IronDanHamza]

It's not about Victor. It's about Floyd's age and inactivity.

Forget about overhyping Victor, get that Floyd fans are trying to big up Victor for if Floyd wins, we overhype the win, out of your head. It's not about Victor Ortiz being this great fighter. This is something that Floyd's to blame for taking 2 years off the sport, twice. That's 4 full years of inactivity in his prime. He thinks he can keep waltzing back in to the sport like it's all good, nothing would happen.


Yeah, Ortiz is not that good. Newsflash, Buster Douglas beat Mike Tyson.

When your heart is not 100% in boxing, you're gonna get knocked out. If you think about retirement too much, some one's gonna knock you out and it doesn't even have to be a great fighter. Tarver knocked Jones out[Jones was old], Douglas knocked Tyson out. 100% rejecting Ortiz of beating an old, inactive, slowed-down Floyd Mayweather Jr, is ridiculous And coming from you that you know so much about the history of the sport, you should know better.

People use the Mike Tyson analogy way too much.

That situation is different from almost anything at the top level of the sport.

At that particular time in Mike Tyson's career, he was acting more like a Rock Star than he was a fighter. That is no one else's fault but Mike's, but, it doesn't relate to most situations in Boxing and very rarely will a fighter at that level be doing what Mike Tyson was doing at that time.

The History of the sport shows no one can beat Father Time, and that's true. But guess what the History of the sport also says loud and clear; That some fighters can still perform at that level at 36, 37, 38. Floyd is 34, how do we know that Floyd isn't one of those guys?

As far as I'm aware, Floyd hasn't shown nearly enough decline to be losing to a fighter of Victor Ortiz calibur. Not even close.

I mean, IF Floyd does get old overnight, can Ortiz win? Of course he can.

The point that I am making, and I think Jro is making, is that I doubt and don't think that Floyd has declined all that much. Alteast not since the Mosley fight.

And if the Mayweather that turned up for the Mosley fight turns up for this fight, he wins easy.

[jrosales13]

And if Mayweather wins, sure, people will say "I told you so" or whatever. But I still won't change my opinion on Floyd playing with fire by retiring for 2 years then coming back thinking he's still 25.

It is playing with fire. But, Ortiz is not that guy. He just too inconsistent, leaky defense, not mentally strong enough to be that guy.

Like I said on another post. Unless Floyd Jr got old mixed in with the inactivity, Ortiz chances are really slim.

Lets not even make the Tyson-Douglas comparison. Because, it's night and day.

Ortiz is not capable of doing things that JMM or Mosley could do. I mean the jab was mentioned. From Ortiz? Really?

[Gino Ros]

It is playing with fire. But, Ortiz is not that guy. He just too inconsistent, leaky defense, not mentally strong enough to be that guy.

Like I said on another post. Unless Floyd Jr got old mixed in with the inactivity, Ortiz chances are really slim.

Lets not even make the Tyson-Douglas comparison. Because, it's night and day.

Ortiz is not capable of doing things that JMM or Mosley could do. I mean the jab was mentioned. From Ortiz? Really?

Would 2010/2011 Shane beat Berto? Would 2011 WW marquez beat Berto?


The jab wasn't mentioned in the context of Ortiz. The jab was mentioned in the context of Floyd not recognizing (or adjusting to) patterns as quickly as he used to.

And if you look at the OP, it was 95% Floyd-deficiency related.

There is no overhyping of Ortiz. And that's why you have failed to provide an example of such.

[IronDanHamza]

Would 2010/2011 Shane beat Berto? Would 2011 WW marquez beat Berto?


The jab wasn't mentioned in the context of Ortiz. The jab was mentioned in the context of Floyd not recognizing (or adjusting to) patterns as quickly as he used to.

And if you look at the OP, it was 95% Floyd-deficiency related.

There is no overhyping of Ortiz. And that's why you have failed to provide an example of such.

Why is there such a stress on the decline of Mayweather?

Do you think he has declined all that much since Mosley?

What is your reasoning for this?

Anyone feel free to answer this.

[Gino Ros]

Why is there such a stress on the decline of Mayweather?

Do you think he has declined all that much since Mosley?

What is your reasoning for this?

Anyone feel free to answer this.

I'm using history as my guide. And the fact that Mayweather is human.
It is reasonable to expect a 35 year old to be tailing off.

Further, I think Floyd's handspeed and footspeed have tailed off - both because of the higher weights and the age.

A candid Roger said that he has seen some erosion.

Soooo, lemme understand: a 34 yr 3 month inactive Oscar is ancient when Floyd faced him....but a 34 year 8 month, and even LESS active Floyd is a sprightly young gazelle.

[jrosales13]

I think most here (like myself) who give Ortiz a good shot believe it has a lot more to do with Floyd slowing down, coupled with his inactivity that will eventually do him in. Could be this fight, could be the next, who knows?

Even if Jr is physically on the decline and just got old. His intangibles, IQ, heart, toughness(2 things that are very underrated for him) will not be on the decline. So even if he got old. I would still favor him to beat Ortiz.

Because, again Ortiz is just not mentally strong enough, he's too inconsistent. He fought an old Campbell and look ish.

For all his tools, he just not capable of putting everything together consistently. No man like will beat a Floyd Jr.

I don't predict many Floyd KO's. But, I think Floyd Jr stopping or making Ortiz quit it's very likely.

I just don't see Ortiz being that guy, man.

[IronDanHamza]

I'm using history as my guide. And the fact that Mayweather is human.
It is reasonable to expect a 35 year old to be tailing off.

Doesn't history tell us that Jersey Joe Walcott won his very first Title at the age of 37?

Doesn't it also tell us that a faded Harold Johnson dominated a prime, fleet footed HOF'er in Willie Pastrano?

How do we know that Mayweather isn't one of those fighters that can still perform at the top level at 34, 35 and 36 onward? He could be, for all we know.

As far as I'm aware he hasn't shown sufficent decline in his last fight.

Further, I think Floyd's handspeed and footspeed have tailed off - both because of the higher weights and the age.

Tailed off to what state?

His hands looked like lightening to me in his last fight and in his recent training sessions.

Footspeed hasn't declined to what people make it out to be either.

A candid Roger said that he has seen some erosion.

Did he? Didn't catch that.

Sure he's declined, he's not the same fighter he was in 2005 and 2006.

But has he declined to a stage where he loses to Victor Oritz? No.

Atleast nothing indicates it yet.

Soooo, lemme understand: a 34 yr 3 month inactive Oscar is ancient when Floyd faced him....but a 34 year 8 month, and even LESS active Floyd is a sprightly young gazelle.

Did I say that? Pretty sure I didn't.

I consider the De La Hoya fight to be a solid, legit fight for Floyd personally.

I don't know about anyone else.