Why Ruiz Fans Notice Certain Things.

[Nautilus]

So you would have me believe that Ruiz is so strong that he prevents fighters from moving away as he moves in? Since when does a fighter's moving toward you prevent you for moving away in order to maintain the right punching distance? Since Ruiz began moving forward?

No amigo.
What is happening is not Ruiz forcing your boys into clinches. Your boys are too big and strong to be forced in that way.

What's really happening compadre Pedro Juan, is that Ruiz lands a punch, hurts one of your boys, and your boys take refuge under Ruiz's sobaco in order to rest.

That's what's really going on.
And if you doubt it look art the fights and see for yourself that your boys are cooperating in winding up in clinches in order to recover from just getting hit.

As a matter of fact, Rahman is a prime example.
Look at the way he cooperated and instead of side stepping or moving backwards he repeatedly went right along and sought the safety of the clinch. Simply put, it benefited him to go right along.

That's the same reason why opponents would repeatedly waltz with Tysone in the middle of the ring. To recover.

Ruiz inspires luv.

Ruiz inspires luv in most boxers.

They just luv to hugg with Ruiz.

The only uninspired were Tua and RJJ.

Tua KOed Ruiz for the luv-making attempt.

RJJ ran away from Ruiz's luv.

Those fools, they didn't know what they were missing:

Ruiz is the greatest luv-making boxer!

[DR. FREECLOUD]

So you would have me believe that Ruiz is so strong that he prevents fighters from moving away as he moves in? Since when does a fighter's moving toward you prevent you for moving away in order to maintain the right punching distance? Since Ruiz began moving forward?

No amigo.
What is happening is not Ruiz forcing your boys into clinches. Your boys are too big and strong to be forced in that way.

What's really happening compadre Pedro Juan, is that Ruiz lands a punch, hurts one of your boys, and your boys take refuge under Ruiz's sobaco in order to rest.

That's what's really going on.
And if you doubt it look art the fights and see for yourself that your boys are cooperating in winding up in clinches in order to recover from just getting hit.

As a matter of fact, Rahman is a prime example.
Look at the way he cooperated and instead of side stepping or moving backwards he repeatedly went right along and sought the safety of the clinch. Simply put, it benefited him to go right along.

That's the same reason why opponents would repeatedly waltz with Tysone in the middle of the ring. To recover.

I'm not really too sure who you are speaking to but I'll respond to you.

I have no doubts that John Ruiz has the power to hurt someone. However, I happen to have quite a few of his fights recorded. He does not hurt his opponent then clinch. If I come at you slinging fists then I could get close enough to grab and hug you like I wanted to sword fight. That has nothing to do with hurting anyone. In case you haven't noticed clinches happen in most all fights. Somehow Johnny is allowed to hug a little more and a little longer than any other fighter I have seen.

I used to like Ruiz. I wanted him to win in the early part of his career. But now i can't stand to watch him fight. I think John is smart for fighting the way he does because it wins fights for him. That is when the ref allows the hugfest to go on.

Jay Nady didn't do anything wrong by not letting ruiz hug and hold. He is consistant with that in every fight. It is a rule. I was actually pissed at Nady during that fight because i wanted Ruiz to win and Nady wouldn't let John hold and hit. Now that I am not blinded by being a fan of Ruiz, I understand. Thier was no bias from Nady. He was just doing his job the way it is supposed to be done.

[Ivansmamma]

Rocko you don't seem to now much about boxing and this is a boxing forum. No one here is impressed by your "clear conversational English" and no one wants you here. Please go to this forum instead: www.able2know.com/forums
someone there might be impressed by you, altought i doubt it.
By the way, my native language is not English.

[Rocko]

Below are examples of how this biased thinking has been directed at Ruiz by anti-Ruiz fans..


There is a certain tendency among die-hard anti Ruiz fans to continually disparage him for getting quickly knocked out by Tua. Presumably, such a quick knockout proves conclusively that a boxer cannot qualify for greatness. However, these are the very anti-Ruiz die-hard fans who would swear by their mothers' graves that Louise, who was knocked out twice by fighters who hit much softer than Tua is one of the all-time greats. They also will go on to extoll such all time greats as Frazier, knocked out by Foreman twice and TKOD by Ali, Wallcott, knocked out by Marciano twice, Duran, knocked out by Hearns, and Joe Lewis, knocked out by Max Schmeling on June 19, 1936 and later on by Marciano. All these they praise for having been great. No mention all is made about the knockouts tarnishing their record. Even the hit-the-canvass-champ of all time, Floyed Patterson is called great and his many ridiculous trips the canvass aren't a factor affecting his so-called greatness.




The style department is another double-standard area. Anti Ruiz fans habitually wax melodic about how Ruiz clinches, ties up, and in general doesn't permit his opponents to box. However, their aversion to clinching never prevents these same fans from calling Ali great. True, Ali, was a great boxer, nevertheless any honest viewer of his fights must admit that he resorted to cupping behind the neck and clinching. His fight against Chuvalo, is a prime example. Hit cup behind the neck to prevent counter punches ad infinitum. Against Frazier in Manila the same tactics were used. No protest from the fans and no points deducted. Ruiz does it, and the Nady-like scowls, screams, and hisses from offended irate fans can be heard for miles.


Then there is the punching power issue. The Ruiz-can't-punch-his-way-out-of-a- paper-bag shpiel. Never mind the long list of early KOs and TKOs. Never mind that he floored a physically fit Johnson twice. Never mind that Ruiz managed to put iron-jawed Holy on the canvass and would have won by knockout if Holy had not resorted to wrestling, grabbing, in order not to fall. Never mind that other more vaunted fighters had failed to do what Ruiz did. These people must needs believe that Ruiz can't punch despite the overwhelming evidence tothe contrary.



Then there is the low blows department that I mentioned earlier. I have repeatedly watched fights where boxers have gone down from low blows and the usual decent commentator response is: "Well, that is understandable! Getting hit low hurts like hell! The cup moves so the low doesn't have to be directly on the groin. Let the man take his time to recuperate. Wonder if he will be able to continue as before after this. Such a shot takes alot out of a fighter!" Ruiz gets hit low and it's: "He's faking it! He's milking this for all it's worth! That's an overreaction That wasn't really that low! The ref is letting him slide! He is taking too long to rest! He's trying to get hit low to force disqualification!" And other such emotionally-charged and irrational comments.

As a fan one is forced to wonder what motivates this type of seemingly out-of-touch-with-reality mentality. It can't be because Ruiz is a foreigner could it? After all,[move][/move] he is an American citizen raised in Massachusetts. It can't be because he's ethnically a Puerto Rican--right? After all, they too are born as USA citizens and have fought and spilled their blood and sacrificed their lives in all the wars started or participated in by the USA--from W.W.I To W.W.II to Korea, to Vietnam, to the Gulf War--right? One wonders about this since it stirs the curiosity of any fan who is not blind to injustice in whatever guise it might happen to appear.



One also wonders just how far down the chronological line this bias will continue to fester. Will its stench still permeate the halls of boxing fandom if Ruiz unifies the belts? Would it have ceased if he had already unified? Or would the same putrid, attitude have prevailed despite the unification. Considering the deeply entrenched, malignant,
tendencies toward bias that I have witnessed ever since Ruiz "dared" to win part of the HW belt, I believe that it would.

[scap]

Your my idol Rocko, now get the **** out of here!

[Rocko]

I'll leave if the moderators tell me to leave, thank you.

[Nautilus]

Below are examples of how this biased thinking has been directed at Ruiz by anti-Ruiz fans..


There is a certain tendency among die-hard anti Ruiz fans to continually disparage him for getting quickly knocked out by Tua. Presumably, such a quick knockout proves conclusively that a boxer cannot qualify for greatness. However, these are the very anti-Ruiz die-hard fans who would swear by their mothers' graves that Louise, who was knocked out twice by fighters who hit much softer than Tua is one of the all-time greats. They also will go on to extoll such all time greats as Frazier, knocked out by Foreman twice and TKOD by Ali, Wallcott, knocked out by Marciano twice, Duran, knocked out by Hearns, and Joe Lewis, knocked out by Max Schmeling on June 19, 1936 and later on by Marciano. All these they praise for having been great. No mention all is made about the knockouts tarnishing their record. Even the hit-the-canvass-champ of all time, Floyed Patterson is called great and his many ridiculous trips the canvass aren't a factor affecting his so-called greatness.




The style department is another double-standard area. Anti Ruiz fans habitually wax melodic about how Ruiz clinches, ties up, and in general doesn't permit his opponents to box. However, their aversion to clinching never prevents these same fans from calling Ali great. True, Ali, was a great boxer, nevertheless any honest viewer of his fights must admit that he resorted to cupping behind the neck and clinching. His fight against Chuvalo, is a prime example. Hit cup behind the neck to prevent counter punches ad infinitum. Against Frazier in Manila the same tactics were used. No protest from the fans and no points deducted. Ruiz does it, and the Nady-like scowls, screams, and hisses from offended irate fans can be heard for miles.


Then there is the punching power issue. The Ruiz-can't-punch-his-way-out-of-a- paper-bag shpiel. Never mind the long list of early KOs and TKOs. Never mind that he floored a physically fit Johnson twice. Never mind that Ruiz managed to put iron-jawed Holy on the canvass and would have won by knockout if Holy had not resorted to wrestling, grabbing, in order not to fall. Never mind that other more vaunted fighters had failed to do what Ruiz did. These people must needs believe that Ruiz can't punch despite the overwhelming evidence tothe contrary.



Then there is the low blows department that I mentioned earlier. I have repeatedly watched fights where boxers have gone down from low blows and the usual decent commentator response is: "Well, that is understandable! Getting hit low hurts like hell! The cup moves so the low doesn't have to be directly on the groin. Let the man take his time to recuperate. Wonder if he will be able to continue as before after this. Such a shot takes alot out of a fighter!" Ruiz gets hit low and it's: "He's faking it! He's milking this for all it's worth! That's an overreaction That wasn't really that low! The ref is letting him slide! He is taking too long to rest! He's trying to get hit low to force disqualification!" And other such emotionally-charged and irrational comments.

As a fan one is forced to wonder what motivates this type of seemingly out-of-touch-with-reality mentality. It can't be because Ruiz is a foreigner could it? After all,[move][/move] he is an American citizen raised in Massachusetts. It can't be because he's ethnically a Puerto Rican--right? After all, they too are born as USA citizens and have fought and spilled their blood and sacrificed their lives in all the wars started or participated in by the USA--from W.W.I To W.W.II to Korea, to Vietnam, to the Gulf War--right? One wonders about this since it stirs the curiosity of any fan who is not blind to injustice in whatever guise it might happen to appear.



One also wonders just how far down the chronological line this bias will continue to fester. Will its stench still permeate the halls of boxing fandom if Ruiz unifies the belts? Would it have ceased if he had already unified? Or would the same putrid, attitude have prevailed despite the unification. Considering the deeply entrenched, malignant,
tendencies toward bias that I have witnessed ever since Ruiz "dared" to win part of the HW belt, I believe that it would.

You have convinced me !

Ruiz is modern Ali !

I am now a Hug fan of Ruiz !

[Ivansmamma]

I say this one more time:

Rocko you don't seem to now much about boxing and this is a boxing forum. No one here is impressed by your "clear conversational English" and no one wants you here. Please go to this forum instead: www.able2know.com/forums
someone there might be impressed by you, altought i doubt it.

Please just leave even the wrestling gaylord Ruiz would be ashamed of you. By the way, my native language is not English.

[Rocko]

This is an accusation routinely leveled against Ruiz.
That he doesn't box but merely wrestles his way to victories.


But regardless of the conviction with which such accusations are repeated--just how much sense does it make?

Not much if you really know how boxing matches are scored. Below I will list the factors that the judges consider when they give points to boxers.

1. Power punches connected.
2. Ring generalship
3. Overall punches scored
4. Who is controlling the action
5. Knockdowns

Lets take the first one first.

Simply stated you cannot pitter patter your way to a win. A boxer pitter pattering will not be given the credit that his opponent who is landing the big shots will.

Why?

Well, because the reason that boxers pitter patter is because they fear to commit. That's because commitment opens them up for counter punching. Pitter pattering is quicker and safer. But it also makes a bad impression.

The second one, Ring Generalship is who is controlling the action. Is the boxer in control, or is he merely reacting ineffectively or barely surviving what his opponent does. Is he fleeing due to fear?

Or is he circling to find the angles? If it is due to fear and ineffectual, judges will tend to look more favorably on the boxer taking the initiative. That's why Delahoya lost to Trinidad.

Knockdowns of course are worth more than regular punches. A boxer might have lost the rest of the round but a knockdown evens the score or might put him ahead.

Now, what does all this have to do with Ruiz?
Well, plenty. There is nowhere any stipulation saying that boxers get points for wrestling. So when the scores are tallied, what is being counted or considered are the points enumerated above.

Nothing more.

[Nautilus]

This is an accusation routinely leveled against Ruiz.
That he doesn't box but merely wrestles his way to victories.


But regardless of the conviction with which such accusations are repeated--just how much sense does it make?

Not much if you really know how boxing matches are scored. Below I will list the factors that the judges consider when they give points to boxers.

1. Power punches connected.
2. Ring generalship
3. Overall punches scored
4. Who is controlling the action
5. Knockdowns

Lets take the first one first.

Simply stated you cannot pitter patter your way to a win. A boxer pitter pattering will not be given the credit that his opponent who is landing the big shots will.

Why?

Well, because the reason that boxers pitter patter is because they fear to commit. That's because commitment opens them up for counter punching. Pitter pattering is quicker and safer. But it also makes a bad impression.

The second one, Ring Generalship is who is controlling the action. Is the boxer in control, or is he merely reacting ineffectively or barely surviving what his opponent does. Is he fleeing due to fear?

Or is he circling to find the angles? If it is due to fear and ineffectual, judges will tend to look more favorably on the boxer taking the initiative. That's why Delahoya lost to Trinidad.

Knockdowns of course are worth more than regular punches. A boxer might have lost the rest of the round but a knockdown evens the score or might put him ahead.

Now, what does all this have to do with Ruiz?
Well, plenty. There is nowhere any stipulation saying that boxers get points for wrestling. So when the scores are tallied, what is being counted or considered are the points enumerated above.

Nothing more.

Neils, is this you ? Welcome back.