was ali really the greatest?

[Kagami Taiga]

because he defeated around 13 HOF's some of them with one eye

he defeated 18 World Champions

he has arguably the the best resume in boxing history

he was arguably the greatest Middleweight with guys like Robinson and Monzon

i definitely agree with that.

and i know about the eye thing, which is amazing but how do u account for that. 13 hofers and 18 world champions. those are numbers, great numbers mind u, but my thing is how do u qualify those numbers? ive never seen him fight. i cant do it. very few ppl alive has seen him fight. so u can go off of numbers and newspaper clippings. but i really just cant.

[jrosales13]

thats the problem. not to say that what these guys did wasnt great. how can u measure it against another great guy we have seen when u have nothing but newspaper clippings etc.? because the numbers? how does that work? sure a guy like greb fought much more than ali, but how do we know his quality of opponent was anywhere near as good as ali's? i dunno that and the fact is that anybody who would is most likely not alive.

Because, there are actually video of his opponents. Hell even Ali said that Tunney was one of the most skilled fighters of all time. And, gave him a lot of respect. Ali watched tapes of Tunney. And, Greb was the only man to beat Tunney and did it with just one damn eye.

And, there's tapes of his other quality opponents like the Gibbons brothers, Rosenbloom, Walker etc etc etc.

So even though Ali quality of opponent was tough as can be. It wasn't as good as Greb opponents.

[Barry Halls]

you can get a lot out of old media coverage and by just looking at someones resume.
Even if i never saw Ali fight i could dissect his greatness purely out of the level of competition he beat, and the thoughts of him at the time.

when judging greatness, I'm a big fan of resume and accomplishments. It sucks we don't have a lot of tape of some great fighters, but it's not impossible to rate them just because of that.

[americanbot]

Really? hes greater than Harry Greb and Robinson?

I nore you have ever witnessed harry greb fight HAHAHA who knows if he wasn't some hyped fighter knocking out tomato can after tomato can. I would have to WITNESS a fighter actually fight before i say that he's better then ali. robinson is a different story. when you look at the film on him you can tell that he was really great. (meaning that he could be p4p materiel through all eras)

the thing is you guys troll for past fighters with shinny records (who've you've never seen before) only so that you can come off as knowledgeable.

it's getting ridiculous.......

[Kagami Taiga]

Because, there are actually video of his opponents. Hell even Ali said that Tunney was one of the most skilled fighters of all time. And, gave him a lot of respect. Ali watched tapes of Tunney. And, Greb was the only man to beat Tunney and did it with just one damn eye.

And, there's tapes of his other quality opponents like the Gibbons brothers, Rosenbloom, Walker etc etc etc.

So even though Ali quality of opponent was tough as can be. It wasn't as good as Greb opponents.

gene tunney was indeed great, i have no doubt. ive heard of maxie rosenbloom but u say there are tapes, and indeed there may be but to suggest theres enough in order to get any real feel for what these guys were capable of, i just havent seen it. i not one of those guys who puts down past great fighters for more current ones. im just honest with myself. i dont assume i know things i dont.

[jrosales13]

you can get a lot out of old media coverage and by just looking at someones resume.
Even if i never saw Ali fight i could dissect his greatness purely out of the level of competition he beat, and the thoughts of him at the time.

when judging greatness, I'm a big fan of resume and accomplishments. It sucks we don't have a lot of tape of some great fighters, but it's not impossible to rate them just because of that.

Exactly right sir,

I wouldn't judge Greb in terms of skills nor would I match in a H2H match up. Because, I have never seen any footage.

But, in terms of greatness you judge that by resume and accomplishments. Don't really need visual evidence for that.

[jrosales13]

I nore you have ever witnessed harry greb fight HAHAHA who knows if he wasn't some hyped fighter knocking out tomato can after tomato can. I would have to WITNESS a fighter actually fight before i say that he's better then ali. robinson is a different story. when you look at the film on him you can tell that he was really great. (meaning that he could be p4p materiel through all eras)

the thing is you guys troll for past fighters with shinny records (who've you've never seen before) only so that you can come off as a knowledgeable.

it's getting ridiculous.......

No one is saying he's better than Ali. For him to be better you need to judge his skills and talent. The argument is that he's greater than Ali. And, to judge greatness you need resume and accomplishments. And, in this regard Ali doesn't come close. Even though Ali has a great resume and accomplishment.

[dde91]

Ali is one of the greatest EVER in any sport. and they took away 4 years of his prime. Imagine him dominating those 4 years, then he would probably rank over Robinson as ATG. He might have had the most title defenses of all time. but we will never know. but everything he did after those 4 years is still GREAT.

[betmen]

wanna know what you think

Ofcourse he is the greatest....
i know a lot of people will disagree and put robinson a head, but when we talk about greatness we have to include all the aspect such accomplishment, charisma, money , fame, skill and influence to the younger generation.

ALI = athlete of the century

[LeG00N]

Ofcourse he is the greatest....
i know a lot of people will disagree and put robinson a head, but when we talk about greatness we have to include all the aspect such accomplishment, charisma, money , fame, skill and influence to the younger generation.

ALI = athlete of the century

who says we need to include Charisma? fame? and really money?

I guess Hagler gets some serious points deducted