Comments Thread For: George Foreman: Klischko Was Afraid To Engage Haye

[klitschkobrofan]

There are no triange theories. Foreman DID become the best heavyweight in the world 20 years after his prime. Moorer was the best HW in the world after beating Holyfield. and that was a Holyfield that had just beaten Bowe and would immediately go on to beat up Ray Mercer as well, worse than Lewis did. And surely you at least respect Lewis, right?

and if 1993 was a weak era, what does that make this? Holyfield deserved to beat beat a top 5 heavyweight in Valuev, and beat him more convincingly than David Haye did...and Haye is considered by most as the 3rd best HW in the world(or he was prior to this last loss). I mean geez.

Hell, what about Foreman beating Briggs at 48? Briggs is somehow going the distance with Vitali years and years after HIS prime. not to mention he beat Liakhovich with terrible asthma and stamina.

You people keep saying the 70s were weak, but in reality 2 fighters from the 70s had success 2 decades later, in their 40s. That is not the sign of a weak era.

I disagree with you. In retrospect Lennox Lewis was the best. Just because he lost to Mccall in looking back we know that was a fluke and he was better than any of the other fighters at that time. Look at this way, if the Klitschko's retired right now, and if someone else became the unified champion in the next year and then lets say Wladimir un-retired and beat that champ and remained champ for many years after, nobody would say that the guy who was champ for a short while when Wlad was away was the best champion of that time. Everyone would know in retrospect Wladimir was the best.

And as far as Holyfield/ Valuev. Valuev is the perfect matchup for a guy like Holyfield. Holyfield can keep himself in tremendous shape and his power and so forth is pretty on par to what it has been for awhile. What isn't the same is his reflexes. Valuev could not test his reflexes thats why he was able to "go through the motions" and beat (well should have beat him) him. Look at Byrd who could test Holyfields reflexes. He made Holyfield look really bad in their fight. Guess who easily beat Byrd not over 2 years earlier? Wladimir Klitschko -- Holyfield can be competitive even now against anyone who can not test his reflexes and/or counter punch effectively. He can be successful to a certain degree only because he's a rare individual who can keep himself in such great physical shape at a overly ripe age.

[Steak]

I disagree with you. In retrospect Lennox Lewis was the best. Just because he lost to Mccall in looking back we know that was a fluke and he was better than any of the other fighters at that time. Look at this way, if the Klitschko's retired right now, and if someone else became the unified champion in the next year and then lets say Wladimir un-retired and beat that champ and remained champ for many years after, nobody would say that the guy who was champ for a short while when Wlad was away was the best champion of that time. Everyone would know in retrospect Wladimir was the best.

And as far as Holyfield/ Valuev. Valuev is the perfect matchup for a guy like Holyfield. Holyfield can keep himself in tremendous shape and his power and so forth is pretty on par to what it has been for awhile. What isn't the same is his reflexes. Valuev could not test his reflexes thats why he was able to "go through the motions" and beat (well should have beat him) him. Look at Byrd who could test Holyfields reflexes. He made Holyfield look really bad in their fight. Guess who easily beat Byrd not over 2 years earlier? Wladimir Klitschko -- Holyfield can be competitive even now against anyone who can not test his reflexes and/or counter punch effectively. He can be successful to a certain degree only because he's a rare individual who can keep himself in such great physical shape at a overly ripe age.

at that current time, yes, Moorer was undoubtedly the best HW in the world. Lewis had jsut gotten knocked out by McCall just a few months before. Frankly I dont see how its a guarentee that that version of Lewis would have beaten Moorer either, since this was pre-Steward Lewis.

and Holyfield obviously doesnt/didnt stand a chance against most top heavyweights. but the fact of the matter is that he did deserve a win over a top ten fighter in the world at the time, and that he preformed better against him than the current #3 best HW in the world. thats pretty impressive at 45/46, even if Valuev was a perfect style matchup for Holyfield. Holyfield was WAAAAAY past prime when he fought Valuev.

[colly10]

guy on a message board criticizes an All-Time Great boxer's analysis...

I think Foreman had scored the fight as a draw, after hearing that, his opinion on the fight is irrelevant.

at least Haye was going for the KO.

He had to, he was loosing every round. I wouldn't really say he made a real effort to get the KO either

[titanium]

Wlad and Haye fought the whole fight like they were afraid of getting hit. That fact made the fight very slow.

[JAB5239]

Wlad and Haye fought the whole fight like they were afraid of getting hit. That fact made the fight very slow.

This is a fact some fans cannot bring themselves to face. The fight was awful.

[LeadUppercut]

He threw a couple of hooks, but they were missing wide so he decided to stick to the jab and right hand. Kind of made for a bit of a stinker, but I don't really blame him considering the magnitude of the fight. I disagree that he never had any intention to KO Haye. He simply didn't go into the fight looking for that one big punch. It was more along the lines of, "I'll fight my fight and what if it happens it happens."

Haye has way more to be ashamed of considering his boasts.

I dont know about that bro.

All fighters boast.

Khan can beat Mayweather, blah, blah, blah.

If anyone believed his boasts and claims that he was going to liberate the heavyweight division, then good for them, but it does not change the fact that Wlad made the exact same boasts, "I am gonna KTFO/punish David Haye"..... he even used the term "pizza-face", but did not attempt to even jab his way toward a super-supreme.

It was very timid, from both guys.

Wlad was ranked #1, has been for a long time, is the dominant heavyweight, held a huge physical advantage, and made the same boasts that Haye made.

I think that Wlad deserves credit for having a style/gameplan that Haye could not beat, I have no problem with technicians at all..... but to make an honest assessment of his performance in that fight, he needs to forget about what Haye was doing and ask himself why he failed to impose himself more on Haye, and why his significant physical advantages did not enable/allow him to fight more positively.

In saying that, Wlad is the man, no question.

[LeadUppercut]

Wlad and Haye fought the whole fight like they were afraid of getting hit. That fact made the fight very slow.

Agreed.

The heavyweight division..... meh.

[JAB5239]

I dont know about that bro.

All fighters boast.

Khan can beat Mayweather, blah, blah, blah.

If anyone believed his boasts and claims that he was going to liberate the heavyweight division, then good for them, but it does not change the fact that Wlad made the exact same boasts, "I am gonna KTFO/punish David Haye"..... he even used the term "pizza-face", but did not attempt to even jab his way toward a super-supreme.

It was very timid, from both guys.

Wlad was ranked #1, has been for a long time, is the dominant heavyweight, held a huge physical advantage, and made the same boasts that Haye made.

I think that Wlad deserves credit for having a style/gameplan that Haye could not beat, I have no problem with technicians at all..... but to make an honest assessment of his performance in that fight, he needs to forget about what Haye was doing and ask himself why he failed to impose himself more on Haye, and why his significant physical advantages did not enable/allow him to fight more positively.

In saying that, Wlad is the man, no question.

Very good post. The only thing I would change is the word "positively". He won decisively, so that is a positive. I would say more effectively. Wlad said he couldn't get to Haye because he kept moving. This is true, but he never imposed himself or broke down the body to prevent Haye from moving so much. He was instead content to jab and hold on. Thats fine, but after you boast punishment people are going to expect it. The excuse he kept moving doesn't fly with me because he did nothing to prevent that. He COULD have been more effective if he was willing to work for it instead of being content, and he than would have given himself a better chance to punish Haye.

[Ravens Fan]

Very good post. The only thing I would change is the word "positively". He won decisively, so that is a positive. I would say more effectively. Wlad said he couldn't get to Haye because he kept moving. This is true, but he never imposed himself or broke down the body to prevent Haye from moving so much. He was instead content to jab and hold on. Thats fine, but after you boast punishment people are going to expect it. The excuse he kept moving doesn't fly with me because he did nothing to prevent that. He COULD have been more effective if he was willing to work for it instead of being content, and he than would have given himself a better chance to punish Haye.

I have to be honest I thought Wlad was going to go into the fight and try to rip Haye's head off. But, after he realized that Haye himself was playing safety first he did what he always has done and won the fight easy. And when has Wlad ever turned someone into a pizza face? In all his knockouts I have never even seen one of his opponents cut much less made into anything close to resembling a pizza that I can think of. And I believe Wlad was and still is happy and content and he has the WBA belt and is mega rich. And despite what his detractors say or do five or so years after he retires he will have a place right next to Big George himself when he is inducted into both the World Boxing and the International Boxing Hall of Fame.

[Jim Jeffries]

He threw a couple of hooks, but they were missing wide so he decided to stick to the jab and right hand. Kind of made for a bit of a stinker, but I don't really blame him considering the magnitude of the fight. I disagree that he never had any intention to KO Haye. He simply didn't go into the fight looking for that one big punch. It was more along the lines of, "I'll fight my fight and what if it happens it happens."

Haye has way more to be ashamed of considering his boasts.

Yeah I can't be bothered to re-watch it, but I definitely remember Wlad missing badly with some hooks and had he kept throwing them, he'd have gotten caught with a counter at some point. All of Wlad's offense comes off the jab, which against orthodox fighters is usually pretty damn good. Against Haye, he was unable to land it consistently, so his offense suffered. I was certain that David would tire later in the fight and Wlad would start really connecting with the jab, but he never did.

Wlad has found something that works well for him, not always pretty, but it usually gets him the knockout eventually. In this case, I'd have liked to see him get a little lower and work the jab to the body, to stop Haye's movement later in the fight, but I don't think he likes to open himself up like that, especially against a quicker counter puncher like Haye.

All in all a rather dull fight that didn't live up to the hype, but which Wlad won convincingly and certainly doesn't deserve all of the blame for. Maybe that's why they're looking at someone like Arreola next, where you're pretty much guaranteed some fireworks.