Is Ortiz being over-rated due to his win over Berto?

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  • Dave Rado
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    #51
    Originally posted by VWEBBJR
    Um..no you don't. Stop posing. You cry about Floyd fighting Marquez at welter, but excuses Manny for it, because they will "weigh the same fight night", get out of here. This is typical of you.
    I know you were replying to someone else, but I had to but in. I don't excuse Manny for it, but there are two reasons why Manny fighting JMM is far more legitimate than the Floyd-JMM fight was. One is that Floyd signed to fight at catchweight but then ignored the catchweight and weighed in at 147, which Manny won't do. Having to lose those extra pounds would almost certainly have made some difference, not to the end result, but to the ease with which he won.

    The other is that Marquez just has a style that gives Manny fits (styles make fights); and because of that, even at 144, he will pose Manny serious problems. That makes him a fairly legitimate opponent, although the fight should certainly have been made at 140, not at 144. OTOH Floyd doesn't have stylistic problems with skilled counter-punchers like Manny does (the only style so far that he had problems with was Castillo's, or to some extent with Judah's), and in his case, given the weight disparity, everyone who knows boxing and who is not a Marquez fanboy knew before the fight that Floyd would toy with Marquez at Welterweight, especially when it was announced that he had not even had to make the catchweight that he had agreed to.
    Last edited by Dave Rado; 06-08-2011, 07:13 PM.

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    • Deevel916
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      #52
      Originally posted by jrosales13
      A WW fighting a LW at WW is an advantage.
      If Pac were a typical WW who packs on 10-12lbs after the weigh in I would agree. Pac never even comes in at the WW limit and comes into the ring for his fights anywhere between 146-149lbs. Truth is, Pac is a LWW fighting at WW.

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      • jrosales13
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        #53
        Pac-JMM III @ WW.

        Is garbage.

        I don't care what way you spin it. It's garbage. No excuses.

        You want to make excuses and give reasons why it's different. But, you can have that on both sides.

        It's all crap. Floyd-Ortiz is legit though.

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        • Dave Rado
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          #54
          Originally posted by Deevel916
          If Pac were a typical WW who packs on 10-12lbs after the weigh in I would agree. Pac never even comes in at the WW limit and comes into the ring for his fights anywhere between 146-149lbs. Truth is, Pac is a LWW fighting at WW.
          Which is why it stinks that the JMM fight isn't going to be at 140.

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          • jrosales13
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            #55
            Originally posted by Deevel916
            If Pac were a typical WW who packs on 10-12lbs after the weigh in I would agree. Pac never even comes in at the WW limit and comes into the ring for his fights anywhere between 146-149lbs. Truth is, Pac is a LWW fighting at WW.
            If Pac was a LWW, than the JMM fight would be at LWW.

            Matter of fact that makes it a lot worse. That a LWW would make a LW go to WW to fight just to have an unfair advantage.

            Good stuff.

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            • Doctor_Tenma
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              #56
              Originally posted by Deevel916
              Given Floyd's skill level, experience, and status within the sport, I will label Ortiz as an "acceptable" opponent. I find it hard to call it a "legit fight" though compared to the level of opposition of past greats who came from retirement to take on a challenge.
              So how does what past greats did, determine whether this is a legit fight or not?
              Last edited by Doctor_Tenma; 06-08-2011, 07:18 PM.

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              • Dave Rado
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                #57
                Originally posted by jrosales13
                If Pac was a LWW, than the JMM fight would be at LWW.
                He is and it should be.

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                • ShoguNinja
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                  #58
                  Gayweather -Ortiz is Good for Boxing! I Hope Fraud wins so he and Manny could Fight and that will be Really GREAT for All of Boxing?! Manny already agreed to his "ODST Drug-Testing demands w/o cut-off", so he and his little "ball-lickers" will have no complaints or excuses?!

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                  • Beater_of_ass
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                    #59
                    Originally posted by jrosales13
                    It's more legit than Pac-Marg, Pac-Mosley, and Pac-JMM III @ WW.
                    Umm... No. Its better than Mosley but not the other two, I don't care about the weight Manny is still fighting someone who is regarding top 5 P4P. Also, Floyd fought Marquez at the same weight and Manny fought JMM twice at "his weight." He didn't win and passed up an immediate rematch after each fight, if he can't get Manny at 135 its his own damn fault. As far as the Marg fight... Come one man, Manny was outweighed by nearly 20 pounds, I knew Manny was going to kick his ass but its not an "easy" fight by any means. There is a reason Floyd never fought Marg and he is going with Ortiz, I mean FFS. Ortiz quit against Maidana and before Berto he got a draw vs Peterson. He's a good fighter but far from someone who has a remote chance of beating Floyd. Also he beat Berto who just about everyone was calling a hypejob.

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                    • Deevel916
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                      #60
                      Originally posted by Dave Rado
                      Which is why it stinks that the JMM fight isn't going to be at 140.
                      Honest question. Do you think there would be any difference in the fighters performance or ring weight if the fighters had to weigh in at no more than 140? Remember, JMM doesnt have to come into the fight at 144. He can weigh 140 for the weigh in if he chooses to and come into the fight around 145 like he did against Katsidis for their LW fight.

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