Who amongst these fighters ranks highest in the ATG list?

[IronDanHamza]

I asked for a quintisiential performance that people will remember Pernel for and you gave me a performance against a 130lb azumah who went life and death with jim mcdonell a brit dude.

Someone hasn't seen the Nelson Vs McDonnel fight. Go and watch. Learn something.

A draw with a ageing 100 fight Chavez and also a draw with a prime DLH.

A draw that he CLEARLY won? And Chavez was one of the P4P fighters at the time.

The Oscar fight wasn't a draw. Learn something.

It was a close fight many felt Whitaker won, including myself.

And you are trying to say his resume is comparable to Pac?

.......Yes. I'm saying it's better.

Im assuming as you mentioned the names Chavez, Nelson and DLH, that these are Pernels most outstanding achievements and performances?

Not De La Hoya, even though it was good as he was on his decline.

The others, yes. Along with others.

And you also gave a mention to Witaker defending his title 8 times. Wow, im sure Pac could have defended his 140 title until he was in his zimmer frame

I'm sure he could. Shame he hasn't thus means absolutely nothing.

but people keep asking him to step up to face Sergio Martinez and FLoyd. He actually chooses to stay in the 147 dvision so people at least wont say hes avoiding Floyd.

Ok. So?

Also doesnt Pernel ever stop opponents, i noticed lots of his fights went 12 rounds against names that dont slip off the tongue and not that well known.

Ok. So?

Couldnt he stop Azumah Nelson or Chavez

Ok. So?

Oh, because its oh so easy to stop Azumah Nelson and Julio Cesar Chavez. Isn't it? Learn something.

What does stopping people more than something else have to do with greatness?

like Pac did to a Morales. That is better than anything Witaker will be known for, stopping Morales.

Good Lord.

It was quite easy to get started actually. But i dont want to get malicious and spiteful like the people are towards Pac you see camped on this thread and others. The ones with agendas.

Yeah, I bet it was.

The whole "Nelson went life and death with McDonnel" and "Whitaker doesn't really stop opponents" was just amazing wisdom there



Learn something. Please.

[Walt Liquor]

Someone hasn't seen the Nelson Vs McDonnel fight. Go and watch. Learn something.



A draw that he CLEARLY won? And Chavez was one of the P4P fighters at the time.

The Oscar fight wasn't a draw. Learn something.

It was a close fight many felt Whitaker won, including myself.



.......Yes. I'm saying it's better.



Not De La Hoya, even though it was good as he was on his decline.

The others, yes. Along with others.



I'm sure he could. Shame he hasn't thus means absolutely nothing.



Ok. So?



Ok. So?



Ok. So?

Oh, because its oh so easy to stop Azumah Nelson and Julio Cesar Chavez. Isn't it? Learn something.

What does stopping people more than something else have to do with greatness?



Good Lord.



Yeah, I bet it was.

The whole "Nelson went life and death with McDonnel" and "Whitaker doesn't really stop opponents" was just amazing wisdom there



Learn something. Please.

why are you talking to that complete moron boxrec master....

[hugh grant]

Its too obvious. Bhop is second and that should be undeniable too. 46 yr old champion? Wont be broken for some time. Gotta go with Floyd at three then Pac.

Being spiteful and angry and sarcastic now i see. True colours are revealed eventually.

Its because its right now. When Pernell was fighting you heard people say he was the best too because he's fresh.

People said he was one of the best, but Pernels forgotten now.
Pac will always be up there.

Answer me this. The first man to beat Floyd is going to get way more props than the second guy right? Thats an obvious yes so who's really getting caught up in hero worship?

The first man to beat Floyd will be remembered for being the first to beat him, just like torrecampo is the first to beat Pac. Torrecampo dont get more credit than Morales, so go back to sleep. Pac will be rememebered for beating Floyds opponents better than Floyd as well.

:
A draw that he CLEARLY won? And Chavez was one of the P4P fighters at the time.

Chavez was one dimensional slugger at that point and not fast. He was made for Pernel. But why didnt Witaker just dominate him, or ko him to make sure, why leave it to judges to make dodgy decisions. Pac at leasts makes it clear who the winner is when he outpoints them, apart from 2 occasions agains the great boxer JMM. JMM is not made for Pac, but Pac still wins.
Im sure some think Pernel lost as well. Its Pernels fault for not being convincing, dont blame anyone other than Pernel. You cant beg for sympathy votes, thats not how it works. Then only way Pernel can sound credible as a fighter is by sympathy votes. Are there any other fights you want us to give sympathy votes to Pernel for that you havent already mentioned. ?How many controversial decisions are there in history? Pernel needs sympathy votes to keep within touching distance of Pac its clear to everyone.

:
The Oscar fight wasn't a draw. Learn something.

It was a close fight many felt Whitaker won, including myself.

It was a draw. If Pernel didnt want to leave it to the judges he should have been more dominant and decisive like Pac is. You thought Pernel won, i think DLH shall i say. That dont count for his legacy.

:

I'm sure Pac could defend his 140 title 8 times like Pernell did. Shame he hasn't thus means absolutely nothing
.

Well considering Pac is so dominant that people dont want him to defend his title and want him to fight Sergio as people are resigned to the fact there is no competion for Pac at 147 and he wont get any credit so ask him to step up again to face Sergio says it all really. Speaks for itself.
Stepping up and beating the best fighters in the division is better than staying in a division.

[IronDanHamza]

I like how you didn't address the epic life and death battle between Nelson-McDonnell

Chavez was one dimensional slugger at that point and not fast.

No he wasn't.

And Chavez was never fast. Doesn't mean he wasn't a great fighter.

He was made for Pernel.

Ok. What's your point?

But why didnt Witaker just dominate him, or ko him to make sure, why leave it to judges to make dodgy decisions.

Yes, he did. You haven't seen the fight.

Pac at leasts makes it clear who the winner is when he outpoints them, apart from 2 occasions agains the great boxer JMM. JMM is not made for Pac, but Pac still wins.

As did Whitaker.

Im sure some think Pernel lost as well.

No, they didn't.

Everybody thinks Whitaker won the fight because he dominated the fight.

Try watching it.

Its Pernels fault for not being convincing, dont blame anyone other than Pernel. You cant beg for sympathy votes, thats not how it works. Then only way Pernel can sound credible as a fighter is by sympathy votes. Are there any other fights you want us to give sympathy votes to Pernel for that you havent already mentioned. ?How many controversial decisions are there in history? Pernel needs sympathy votes to keep within touching distance of Pac its clear to everyone.

Again, watch the fight. He was convincing as ever.

Sympathy votes? What are you talking about?

It was a draw. If Pernel didnt want to leave it to the judges he should have been more dominant and decisive like Pac is. You thought Pernel won, i think DLH shall i say. That dont count for his legacy.

It wasn't a draw offically. Oscar got the decision offically, which shows how little you know.

This one however, was close. Could have gone either way.

Well considering Pac is so dominant that people dont want him to defend his title and want him to fight Sergio as people are resigned to the fact there is no competion for Pac at 147 and he wont get any credit so ask him to step up again to face Sergio says it all really. Speaks for itself.
Stepping up and beating the best fighters in the division is better than staying in a division.

Ok, cool.

Still doesn't change the fact he didn't defend his title at 140 therefore your point it mute.

[hugh grant]

:

No he wasn't.

And Chavez was never fast. Doesn't mean he wasn't a great fighter.
.

Chavez was a very good fighter, but guys who arent fast Pac has little trouble with them. I could give you many examples. You will say but this was Chavez, he is not any slow guy. Pac deals with slow guys like Chavez end of. Made for him.

:

Ok. Chavez was made for Pernell What's your point?

.

My point is that when people are supposedly made for Pac, he disposes of them with relatively little trouble. Margarito was made for Pac, Cotto was a slugger he was made for Pac as was Hatton. When people are made for Pernel i know what i expect of someone who is supposed to be as good as Pernell.

:


Everybody thinks Whitaker won the fight because he dominated the fight.

Try watching it.
.

Well the judges dont seem to think so. I ask for quintisential Pernel and you give me a fight in which Pernel draws. Are you going to also give me other losses of pernell that he should have got the decision but didnt? THis is what i mean by sympathy votes."!

:

Again, watch the fight. He was convincing as ever.

Sympathy votes? What are you talking about?
.

As above. I asked for pernels most outstanding achievements and results and you give me draws with boxers who are made for him and expect me and everyone else to be delighted like you so clearly are.

:

It wasn't a draw offically. Oscar got the decision offically, which shows how little you know.

This one however, was close. Could have gone either way.

.

Im sorry we are getting no where. I just cant get excited about close decisions where you think Pernel did enough to get the decision but didnt.

[Cokezaghe_Loc]

Whitaker, closely followed by Pac.

Jones, Hopkins, and Mayweather are all overrated shit stains that I'd leave inside a burning house to save a Pig.

[Manny#1ATG]

Should have made this an open poll so we can see who actually voted which ways.

[IronDanHamza]

Chavez was a very good fighter, but guys who arent fast Pac has little trouble with them. I could give you many examples. You will say but this was Chavez, he is not any slow guy. Pac deals with slow guys like Chavez end of. Made for him.

Chavez is greater than any fighter Pacqiuao has ever faced, especially at 140 or above.

My point is that when people are supposedly made for Pac, he disposes of them with relatively little trouble. Margarito was made for Pac, Cotto was a slugger he was made for Pac as was Hatton. When people are made for Pernel i know what i expect of someone who is supposed to be as good as Pernell.

So what? What relevance does this have?

Well the judges dont seem to think so. I ask for quintisential Pernel and you give me a fight in which Pernel draws.

The judges were wrong.

Anyone who has watched the fight will tell you that Whitaker clearly won the fight and was blatently robbed. Do a Poll.

Are you going to also give me other losses of pernell that he should have got the decision but didnt? THis is what i mean by sympathy votes."!

Well, the first Ramirez fight Whitaker clearly won and wasn't given the descion. A fight that was even clearer than the Chavez fight. Try watching them.

How is it a sympathy vote if he clearly deserves the descion?

As above. I asked for pernels most outstanding achievements and results and you give me draws with boxers who are made for him and expect me and everyone else to be delighted like you so clearly are.

What you are struggling to grasp is Whitaker clearly won the fight and was robbed. It is labelled as one of the biggest robberies on Boxing history.

And what does it matter he was 'made for him'? Chavez was one of the best fighters in the world at the time and Whitaker clearly beat him in his 3rd weight class.

Im sorry we are getting no where. I just cant get excited about close decisions where you think Pernel did enough to get the decision but didnt.

Of course you won't. You only get excited by Manny Pacquaio. Literally.

[Bumpin]

Yes he did, and PW cant say it didnt happen cause millions were watching.